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(09-11-2013, 10:57 AM)zweikiki Wrote: [ -> ]SPOILERS AHEAD

There are a lot of questions I have about the game. I'm no english native, so maybe I missed some details here and there, but I guess a lot of the story is also open for interpretation. I think I dont get the ending at all.

Are Mandus and his antagonist the same person?

Who is that guy in the coffin at the end?

Why is there a heart build in the machine?

Why is there a huge temple in the machine? And what exactly does Mandus do at the end when he straps himself into the chair?

What about all those colored pig masks?

How did Mandus' children die exactly? And why has Mandus visions about them (opening their chests and showing their hearts)?

Why has Mandus created the man-pig hybrids in the first place? And what is that electro pig?

Maybe someone could just write down the whole story? I'm kinda curious...

My guesses/answers to your questions:

Yes, I am almost 1000% sure that Mandus somehow transferred part of himself to the Machine. That may also be the reason why no owner of the first heart was shown. It was Mandus's. He used himself as a host so as to drive his goal to cleanse humanity.

I think the guy in the coffin is just an unnamed man (or the professor in the music boxes) that was used to host Mandus's alternate personality (the one that wanted to exterminate humanity).

I have a feeling that is Mandus's heart. Some of the notes and journals hint that Mandus gave up part of himself to fuel the machine.

The temple looks like a native Mexican temple, hinting back to the original expedition that gave Mandus the sickness that killed them all in the end. Im not sure why it was under the factory/machine though.

The pig masks were a symbol for the machine. I also think they were ever present in the game due to the fact that Mandus hated the upper class and would often through fancy dinner parties only to throw the rich to the pigs for fodder.

Mandus killed his children to power the machine. That is why I also think it is possible that the voice in the machine is a manifestation of both of his children. The children were connected to the machine next to the chair. My guess is that Mandus used the chair to put himself in the place of his children, allowing them to rest in peace. This also explains how Mandus could see London and comment on the new century.

I think the electric pig is a hallucination, or a physical embodiment of the machine, but the manpigs were made for extermination. He wanted to use them to exterminate the filth of mankind so he could give way to a new race and a cleansed world.
(09-14-2013, 10:00 PM)LarryV Wrote: [ -> ]What about the kaernk in the Sewers?
It's the same type of creature that haunted down Daniel but only faster and electric.
It's might not be a big deal in the overall story but it does connect TDD with AMFP

It wasn't a Kaernk.

I remember reading that while they were doing the testing for the pigmen with compound X, there were some experiments that resulted in a lifeform without a body or form, more-or-less, and they dumped them in the sewers.

As for the electrical charges when it moves, it might have something to do with the compound X, but I'm not sure...

Hell, I'm not even sure about most of the plot, speaking of, can someone just lay down for me what the machine actually was made for and ended up doing? I have a vague idea, but nothing clear...
Today while futzing around reading about Jack the Ripper, I saw something about another serial killer from that time period who was a lot more, er, prolific than Jack. Just thought I would share.

A man named H. H. Holmes built a "hotel" in Chicago in 1889, which was actually an elaborate maze of a hundred rooms fit with things like false doors and stairways to nowhere, where he would trap people after luring them to stay in the hotel and then torture and dissect them. The guy killed hundreds of people in this place. He even had a chute, that he would send the dead or unconscious bodies down, that connected from the hotel to the basement filled with all sorts of really gruesome stuff. I thought that sounded quite familiar, in the way that Mandus had guests stay in those rooms and then send them down the chutes connected to the factory.

It was quite a sensational story in the 1890's after H. H. Holmes had finally been caught and his "hotel" revealed to be what it truly was, perhaps Mandus took inspiration from this guy's work Wink
(09-15-2013, 12:36 AM)rotten Wrote: [ -> ]Well, I don't really think we should even consider this 3rd child, that would be too complicated. He is not really referenced in the game, so we must deal only with those who are. There are plenty of characters in the game, who are referenced directly, we should stick to those Smile

Third Child = Machine. Hence why the opening has an adult voice saying "Daddy, please don't kill me."
I loved tdd's story. While the ending (any one of the 3) wasn't so great, it was more understandable and believable than amfp's story.

Daniel was being chased by a murderous shadow and offered shelter by Alexander. Alexander manipulated Daniels fear of the shadow to make him commit those horrible acts of torture. Once Daniel realizes Alexander is only using him to get vitae, his is disgusted and angered and decides to kill Alexander for manipulating him into torturing all those innocent people.

This is by far a better story than a man who sees a vision of the future and decides to kill everyone.I just felt like the idea of killing everyone wasn't justified enough. Daniels reason for torturing people made sense. He was scared of the shadow. Mandus should have been given more motivation. Maybe instead of his wife dying after childbirth, she could have been killed by some hobo or begger. Maybe his kids could have been kidnapped by hobos too or something idk. This may sound dumb but at least his hate of the poor and others would have been more justified.
It is interesting to note, that February 1899’s excursion may not have been Mandus’ first venture into Mexico/South America. From what we can tell, he is a hunter of exotic game. With the exception of the Hippopotamus, all of the animals in the taxidermy room had been/are indigenous to Mexico and/or South America. If we consider the dates the animals were shot, it is possible that Mandus had been to such locations undoubtedly in April of 1892 and potentially June of 1898 (Mexican Grizzly bears were hunted to extinction by mid 20th century)

Giant Anteater shot April 12th 1892
Hippopotamus shot March 15th 1896
Grizzly Bear shot June 6th 1898
Harpy Eagle
Butterfly Case (Morpho Didius)

What this signifies I wouldn’t know. If we were to run with the theory that the entire premise of A Machine for Pigs is a demented manifestation crafted by a schizophrenic mind, it could be yet another recurring subconscious theme of Mandus’ obsession and assimilation of Aztecan/ Mexican culture. If based in reality, then it could simply be
an interesting coincidence.

There is also a vase of white lilies in the room, as well as two in the hallway before entering.

I don’t know who this quote is from, and doubt it has any connection to the story, but I thought it interesting regardless:

“In my vision, I saw a Great Pyramid of stone and from it emerges a giant White Lily. As it gently blooms, the pyramid crumbled."
—Helene's Vision

One last thing, someone mentioned Mandus’ and Alexander’s coat of arms being the same. They are very similar, though one eagle has two heads [Mandus], while the other has one [Alexander].

Everyone here has come up with great theories. I’m curious to know more about how the Jack the Ripper and James Tilly Mathews allusions tie in…

All in all I love how much thought TCR put into this story.The symbolism, literary and real life allusions are so intricately interwoven, it gives the player much and more to consider.
One observation about how Aztecs treated their sacrificial victims: they would treat them to a lavish feast first. Ties in with Ozzie's guests being fattened on supper first before capture.

Also, the Aztec rain god (Tlaloc) required children to be crying before being burned as sacrifices, and the parents would approve. The parents would also eat their remains.
A few things are still confusing me.

Did Mandus transform the orphanage children into manpigs or did he just use them as is? (regarding the journal entry where he describes "children" going into the steam pipes with messy consequences, then feeding survivors to the "pigs" (again, manpigs, or people?))

Who exactly did he transform into manpigs? Mostly poor? No rich? I suppose it seemed more like Mandus' hatred towards the rich was a later thing in around October and he'd been doing stuff since June at the latest.

Now in several of his Journal entries he refers to the "Product". Is this a reference to regular pigs, manpigs or humans?

Sometimes it's hard to get a grasp on who is he serving to whom for dinner and such.

(09-15-2013, 06:01 AM)jakoob26 Wrote: [ -> ]This is by far a better story than a man who sees a vision of the future and decides to kill everyone.I just felt like the idea of killing everyone wasn't justified enough. Daniels reason for torturing people made sense. He was scared of the shadow. Mandus should have been given more motivation. Maybe instead of his wife dying after childbirth, she could have been killed by some hobo or begger. Maybe his kids could have been kidnapped by hobos too or something idk. This may sound dumb but at least his hate of the poor and others would have been more justified.

Mandus' Journals clearly indicate a man who was already at the brink of a mental breakdown before he even made his ill-fated sabbatical to Mexico, talking of losing everything, wealth and such, and killing his creditors. His happenstance in Mexico pushed him over the edge after showing him a future where his sons die in a World War, having been already pushed to the brink before this, and reeling from the loss of his wife after all this time, he was easily put under the influence of the Orb and formed a split personality.

At the start, he thought that he could save his children from that fate by making a sacrifice like the Aztecs, but as time goes by and his descent into madness continues (especially the more he experiments with Compound X), his warped self starts to believe that all of mankind is damned and that there are no "worthy souls" that can be saved, which eventually culminates in the murder of his twins, and then expanding the machine into something greater that can wipe all mankind out.

It was a gradual process which led him to decide to end all of man. The thing no one can really say is, what changed his mind after Christmas?
Mandus hates the poor because he's an arrogant aristocrat who despises their 'unrefined' nature. Yet he depends on them.

(09-11-2013, 08:39 PM)aabbcc Wrote: [ -> ]they are slaughting a lot of people - would have to kill the wipe out the whole london for that amount, which would contradict with teh idea that thsi should fit into our timeline

Well, typically in slaughter-houses a lot of water is used to wash away blood & clean the carcasses. Perhaps it is bloodied water.

(09-11-2013, 09:57 PM)pikmintaro Wrote: [ -> ]#2: The water monsters were they the same ones from the original Amnesia or
something else? one of the notes sounded like they were stuck between
dimensions or something, so were they just previously Pigmen or what it
sort of sounded to me like they made the same sort of pig noises?

#3: The electric Pigman at the end that seemed to teleport everywhere,
what was up with that thing? was it a super Pigman that Mandus or his
evil half (Which I think is the guy in the machine? I'm not sure.) made?
I hurried through that section so I don't know if there was any paper
about it.

I think they're one-in-the-same. Notice the shocks that appear in the water as the invisible creature walks around in the sewers. There is a note that references instability in the warmer air so they jump back and forth between places (worlds?). As you get to the cooler centre where the controls are, the giant electric pig(s) are more stable and so we see them for longer periods of time.