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+--- Thread: Goals and Storytelling (/thread-20011.html)
RE: Goals and Storytelling - Statyk - 01-27-2013
Well, Dark Side, it's hard to stem solely on a specific mechanic. Because with the idea you gave, you became a bit hypocritical... You claim gameplay > story when development is first thought of. And I agree with you to some extent, because I would like to have a game I can really play over and over and enjoy (such as Left 4 Dead or even Killing Floor), and they have a small universe built on story. They are games meant for fun and good times. This seems like what you are more interested in to me, based on everything I have read you saying. A game with enough motive to get you moving, but that keeps you active while playing. But this is where you get a bit hypocritical... You claim modern shooters such as CoD as bad, but to my knowledge, they are more focused on gameplay than storyline, are they not? The updates on their upcoming releases are mostly focused on multiplayer and gameplay. Yet you say you don't like them. I understand you don't like their mechanics, but the idea is the same. This part is leaving me confused about your interests...
But I agree with you a bit. I enjoy memorable gameplay, because if you go back to the beginnings of games, they were made for entertainment and fun. They hardly, if at all, told a story (Pac-Man, Tetris, Pitfall, Space Invaders, etc.) and it seems story is hogging the spotlight at times. I remember and replay many of the opposite types of games because they're just so damn fun! Games like L4D2, Killing Floor, Mirror's Edge (So good. SUCH challenging Time Trials, I dare you to do them =P), Sanctum, Payday: The Heist, TF2, etc. These are my most played games on steam. And it seems all are based upon gameplay more than story. So you win my vote there. This is why games like Dear Esther (Sorry TCR!), disappointed me a bit. I would much rather have a game I could play over and over than one I could enjoy one time. Thankfully Amnesia supports Custom Stories and FCs, so I have the opportunity to replay the game every once in awhile. In fact, I've only played through the campaign once.
But some people enjoy a good story. Without a good story, they feel duped. Look at games like Halo, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, etc. They're big because their stories are vast. And they're popular because of it.
It's really a matter of taste and preference dark side. It's not that FG is going to destroy their gameplay designs, they just figure without a convincing story, what is the purpose of creating a game in the first place?
(01-27-2013, 08:42 PM)the dark side Wrote: and why, praytell do you disagree? "no, just no" just doesnt cut it i am afraid. if you are going to disagree with my statements, i would like to know Why you disagree, i told Thomas why, for the first time ever, i disagree with his.. so why cant you tell me why you disagree with my statements?. when i take the time to give an argument in favour of gameplay over story to counter an argument for Storyline over Gameplay, i do appreciate people taking the time to dissect the post and post counter arguments as i did with Thomas's Original Blog, bot just post "no, just no" as if this was twitter, it just looks so,... trollish, i KNOW for a fact you are not a troll lucke, so kindly dont post like one, its below you! and hopefully also below everyone else on these here forums.
That doesn't even make him a troll in the first place.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - Wooderson - 01-27-2013
Since you want me to explain then fine. What you've said above "Gameplay is everything" is totally fine and understandable, but the quote "Gameplay is everything" is wrong and contradicts what you probably believe.
Its your opinion and if you think that "Gameplay is everything" then fair enough, but I just disagree because storyline is just as enjoyable.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - Statyk - 01-27-2013
Like Lucke said, Gameplay is important, but is certainly not everything. But all is opinions.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - the dark side - 01-27-2013
Ah, i think i may have been a bit Obtuse with my posting again, thanks for pointing that out statyk, i mainly hate on COD because, it takes the gameplay over story argument too far. the storylines they do have, are pretty offensive, just a basic "they blew up new york" excuse for killing over half of russia. i dont sit well with that, like i said, gameplay Is everything, but, that must not be taken as an excuse to not bother writing a good story, doing a half basic "they did this, so you must kill them" is fine for something like doom or serious sam, but, when you apply it to warfare, it seems like a paper thin excuse to play out genocide fantasies and cold war Paranoias. i think COD is one of those games that needs to up its story telling, as it cannot get away on pure gameplay alone. Also, as i said, i cannot stand Bad Gameplay, or games that are easy, COD not opnly has a very easy difficulty level, but also contains every mechanics i consider as being those of Bad Gameplay, it is the Archetype of Bad Gameplay to me.
Also, as i said, I cannot Stand Multiplayer, it is a gimmick pure and simple and one that takes away time and money that should be spent on single player.
My Main interest, to me, the perfect game is something Rather Like "the Operative: No One Lives Forever" And its Sequal " A Spy in Harms Way" games that put gameplay first, with high challenge, great gameplay variety, and superb design, but also has a lot of storyline with some great expositionand, in Nolf 1's case, richly detailed charachters who are fleshed out right back to childhood. thats the perfect for me, a game that remembers that Gameplay is Everything, But also gives us a great storyline as well, same with MGS1, a Perfect Balance of Great Gameplay, And Great Story. i hope that makes my views clearer.
Agreed, Memorable gameplay is what makes a game for me as well, . great to see we are on similar wavelengths on that one, i was worried i may have been "the last of the time lords" there with my "gameplay" statements..
i was a little worried that FG might be loosing sight of their principles, they know how to make some properly feindish puzzles, and i was worried they were going to bin them in place of story. thanks for clearing that up Statyk.
PS , agreed i went a bit too far with lucke there, sorry! ill edit the post, Sorry Lucke, hope i didnt get you too wound up there, and thanks for the explanation, i think i may have been black and white with the Gameplay statment, I love story as well, ill go edit my statement.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - Statyk - 01-27-2013
If you're afraid of modern shooter's simplicity and multiplayer mechanics, I recommend trying Team Fortress 2, honestly. It's heavily skill-based and still keeps true to some of your "vintage gameplay" ideals. Teamwork is important rather than being a one-man-army. People who cross over from games like CoD often have a very hard time getting into it. It's a free game now, so you're not losing anything.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - the dark side - 01-27-2013
I have looked at TF2 a lot, i actually have it, owned it for ages, its on my PC orange Box of Half Life II. ive just avoided it (its never been installed) due to it being multiplayer, and me having nothing but BAD experiences off online Mp on the few times i have ventrured into online . there are a lot of "trash talkers" and "haters" on MP as we all know, and i just cannot cope with them, it opens up all sorts of old psychological wounds and i am off my head for days. perhaps if you can turn the talk off, or there are servers were those people are not allowed, then i will give it a go, about time i installed it, i paid for it after all as part of orange box. thanks.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - Statyk - 01-27-2013
There are still trash-talkers and "Squeakers" (children) over the mic, but there is an option in the audio that allows you to disable in-game voice. Beautiful silence. I make sure it's always on. The game itself has some cleverly sarcastic humor to it on the characters. Gives the characters some unique personalities and can give you a laugh from time to time. Gotta love Valve.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - the dark side - 01-27-2013
then i think i will definatly get around to installing the game, thanks statyk!
RE: Goals and Storytelling - Statyk - 01-27-2013
No problemo. It's a shame to hear someone almost never plays multiplayer games. They're a blast sometimes.
RE: Goals and Storytelling - MyRedNeptune - 01-27-2013
@TDS: I think you might have misunderstood them a bit. They are interested in exploring ways to tell stories via games, aka games as a storytelling medium. And this is a blog post analyzing different types of storytelling found in games and their possible applications and validity within their particular goals.
They're not claiming that this is how games should be made or that all other approaches are obsolete.
EDIT: guess I left my tabs open for like 4 hours before reading and replying again. Silly me. :3