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+--- Thread: Mod insanity back into the game? (/thread-22993.html)
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - SilkSk1 - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 08:35 PM)Nuits Grace Wrote: The only times when I noticed an insanity system in TDD was when the scripted moments would happen. The rest of the times the effects were just visual. At least in Black PlagueSpoiler below!
TDD had nothing like that. Just some superficial effects most of the times and the noteworthy insanity effects being scripted. What more do you want? They just removed the meter itself and the superficial elements (standing in the darkness and whatnot) of the system.
If TDD has used it well and TCR would have removed it then fine but TDD didn't use it well, so moot.
I don't understand this complaint.
And I don't understand why everyone keeps bringing up scripted events. I'm talking mainly about monster encounters. And how couldn't you notice how the insanity affected your character? Were we playing the same game? The game I played made your camera wobble all over the place, blurred your vision to the point where it hurt and made you crawl around on the ground if your insanity got too high. Granted, it rarely got to that point, but trying to keep it from going that far added to the tension. The scared of the dark thing was dumb sure, but it still kept things uncomfortable.
And again, the insanity feature needed improvement. It DID NOT need to be removed. That was a huge mistake.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - Cuyir - 09-11-2013
That's if you looked at the monster, Daniel would begin making a fuss and woosh. Same happened in the Penumbra series.
I haven't run into enemies yet in AMFP but if that still works then I see no reason for this complaint. If it doesn't then that's definitely a minus.
But as for standing in the darkness and whatnot? Please.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - SilkSk1 - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 09:05 PM)Nuits Grace Wrote: That's if you looked at the monster, Daniel would begin making a fuss and woosh. Same happened in the Penumbra series.
I haven't run into enemies yet in AMFP but if that still works then I see no reason for this complaint. If it doesn't then that's definitely a minus.
But as for standing in the darkness and whatnot? Please.
Kotaku's review put it this way.
Quote:Speaking of disappointments, it's also difficult to ignore all of the elements present in the first game that have been removed from the new one. For example, one of the smartest things about The Dark Descent was how Frictional Games built it around an ingeniously cruel series of interlocking systems: P
1) If you stayed in the darkness too long, you'd go mad and die. P
2) If you stood in the light, the monsters could see you and kill you.P
3) If you looked directly at a monster, you'd also go mad and die. P
The systems worked in concert as a sort of game-design pincer trap, forcing player-response in the most nightmarish way possible. The design encouraged players to avert their eyes from the (somewhat low-fi) monsters while making it difficult to simply hide in a dark corner and wait things out. P
A Machine for Pigs has removed all of that, and while Mandus' state of mind is far from rock-solid, "sanity" as a game-mechanic is no longer present. When bad things do appear in A Machine for Pigs, the lights flicker, and that's about it. Your vision doesn't blur, the walls don't bow in and out; no cockroaches climb across your vision. That the sequel lacks The Dark Descent's cruel trifecta of darkness, madness and monsters isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that it doesn't bring any new ideas of its own leaves the game feeling markedly thinner and less oppressive than its predecessor.
It may not have been perfect, but Amnesia was better with the mechanic then without.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - Cuyir - 09-11-2013
Well that's a gross overstatement on the standing in the darkness and dying.
I spent 80 percent of TDD in the dark, crouched. I rarely used my tinderbox and lantern. And all that got me was that crackling sound which got annoying and the distorted vision that didn't affect me much.
Again, I don't miss that superficial effect. Barely registered and it didn't get me anywhere near dead.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - SilkSk1 - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 09:19 PM)Nuits Grace Wrote: Well that's a gross overstatement on the standing in the darkness and dying.
I spent 80 percent of TDD in the dark, crouched. I rarely used my tinderbox and lantern. And all that got me was that crackling sound which got annoying and the distorted vision that didn't affect me much.
Again, I don't miss that superficial effect. Barely registered and it didn't get me anywhere near dead.
Maybe you didn't die but you certainly went mad if you looked long enough. As I keep saying, it needed improvement. But the fact that it was there still made me wary. I'd rather have that imperfect implementation from the last game then nothing at all.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - Alardem - 09-11-2013
I actually liked Mandus' courage. Screw the claims that 'you'd be insane if you were in Daniel's position' - when I hesitated and felt terror upon encountering the pigs, it was MY hesitation that drove me to hide and not the need to fulfill the protagonist's arbitrary wants.
Put it this way - by the middle of TDD, I'd grown desensitized to the presence and appearance of the monstrosities. Daniel didn't. I therefore got frustrated when the man would collapse and whimper while I myself wanted to just run away or remain in the darkness, which in gameplay terms was far safer than the light.
By not including a system to measure something as arbitrary as 'sanity', the level and sound design still work to make you question the character's grasp on reality in a subtler, creepier fashion. Remaining in the darkness is also quite discomforting, as Mandus' eyes do not adjust to the blackness and using light would draw the attention of the beasts...
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - bluel0bster - 09-11-2013
This is the one (and only) justifiable complaint I've seen so far. I think "pigs" would be better off with the sanity meter, mainly because it's too easy just to stare at the monsters without consequence, and hide in the dark waiting for them to leave.
The scariest things are unseen, left to the imagination; the less of the monsters we see the better, which is one reason I believe the general consensus is that this game is less scary (at least on a basic level) than TDD.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - Alardem - 09-12-2013
(09-11-2013, 10:42 PM)bluel0bster Wrote: This is the one (and only) justifiable complaint I've seen so far. I think "pigs" would be better off with the sanity meter, mainly because it's too easy just to stare at the monsters without consequence, and hide in the dark waiting for them to leave.
The scariest things are unseen, left to the imagination; the less of the monsters we see the better, which is one reason I believe the general consensus is that this game is less scary (at least on a basic level) than TDD.
The pig-men look like pig-men, which is to say their appearances don't possess the same repulsiveness that Amnesia 1's deformed beasts had. But their screeches are terrifying (no cute oinks to be had), and the horror is more in seeing hints of their lost humanity - the sewer cells where they eat, sleep and play.
Men subjected to fates worse than death is a common theme in Frictional games - the Tuurngait, the Gatherers, the Suitors and now the Pigmen...
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - Trialtrex21 - 09-12-2013
(09-11-2013, 05:42 PM)Nuits Grace Wrote: Do you really miss that useless meter?
It only filled up during scripted sequences, which made it useless.
Outside of those sequences, staring at the creatures for too long only caused you to get discovered, like in the Penumbra games which had no insanity meter.
So what's the point of the meter then? I spent 80 percent of A:TDD crouching and with the lantern off and all it did was cause visual effects and the crackling sounds. Nothing else. Useless mechanic when you realize that it has no penalty for filling it up (besides wobbly controls and distorted vision) and that it can only be filled up when the game is scripted to do so.
Yes, thank you for this post. This is something I noticed a lot in The Dark Decent. The idea of sanity was very much abused throughout the whole game. I mean, sure sometimes you would hear voices and a few visual effects would appear, but overall the mechanic was unused. I am dumbfounded by the claims that A Machine For Pigs is a lesser game because of the removal of the sanity mechanic. It is not a lesser game at all because of this because The Dark Decent never used the mechanic to it's potential.
RE: Mod insanity back into the game? - SilkSk1 - 09-12-2013
(09-12-2013, 03:36 AM)Trialtrex21 Wrote: It is not a lesser game at all because of this because The Dark Decent never used the mechanic to it's potential.
As opposed to AMFP which doesn't use it AT ALL. Yes, it is a lesser game because of this.