Furguson, Missouri - Printable Version

Furguson, Missouri - Printable Version

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RE: Furguson, Missouri - MrWhitticus - 08-14-2014

(08-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Robosprog Wrote:
(08-14-2014, 03:51 PM)MrWhitticus Wrote:
(08-14-2014, 03:40 PM)Robosprog Wrote:
(08-14-2014, 03:34 PM)Kman Wrote:
(08-14-2014, 02:38 PM)Dogfood Wrote: if a white person would be killed, I'm betting the outrage would be 80% lower, just another tragic murder but what can you do...

A black person gets killed though, you get an uproar.

I think it's silly and stupid just like the Zimmerman case (who the murderer wasnt even white but latino)

oh my god dogfood youre generally a cool guy but please shut up

you aren't taking into account the systems of power at play here or the history the police force in america has of police brutality against black people or how incredible disgusting and inhumane the circumstances of this particular case is not to mention the fact that its a BLATANT ACT OF RACISM so yes it fucking matters that he was black

please

stop

"blatant act of racism"
Yet, you only have two differing sides of the story to go with and no actual certainty in regards to the case.
Kman, please, stop. You don't know what actually happened. There has been no conclusive evidence that the kid either was shot just randomly, or if he actually did try and attack the police officer. Of course, the police could have reacted better, but fucking rioting just because a kid was shot and they think it was unjust whilst in reality they weren't there, and there is -no- conclusive evidence is moronic.
Yes, America has a history with this shit. So does England. Guess what, we rioted too when something simillar happened - and was that reaction warranted? No.
England had a history of discrimination against lower class citizens and black citizens, yet, rioting, and looting, was not an appropriate reaction. It never is.
The black community aren't fucking peacefully protesting. This is not helping their case. This is just using the situation as justification for shitty human behaviour. Has it been coming? Sure! Does that make it okay? No!
So, please, Kman, shut up, because you know as much about this as anyone else does - which is fuck all about the truth of what happened.
Wait for a conclusion from the investigation into this before saying this is just blatant racism. Because seriously, right fucking now we have no idea.

I agree with both Robo and Kman's points of views but I just have to point out tht the 'rioting' that Robosprog is saying the protesters have been doing was literally sitting out the front of a police station on their knees with their hands in the air, after which the military police brought in heavy artillery and threatened to maim or kill the protesters.

There have also been many eyewitness accounts and surveillance files released which show that Michael Brown was, in fact, not attacking the policeman at all, and the attack was "brought on" when Brown accidentally knocked the door of the police car as the officer that killed him got out, "harming" the officers leg. The officer then pulled him through the window, shot him in the waist at point blank and allowed him to run some time before shooting him in the chest several times.

As for the racism side of it, I doubt any police officer would drive up to anyone, black or otherwise, yell at them to "get on the fucking sidewalk" and kill them for no reason unless they had been brought up in a society that taught them that a specific group of people were 'dangerous.' Brown had no reason to be assaulted and nothing of this nature has ever surface which happened to a white person, let alone been covered up by the fucking military.

So yes, this is a racial issue.

To your first point:

That's by no means -just- peaceful protesting. There is a lot of violence going on out there right now, saying they're innocent is wrong.

It's not a racial issue in so far as it, at most, is a corrupt cop. There are eyewitness accounts against him - but hell, this is an area that is two third black. Of course they're going to take the side of the black kid. Add to that, prior tensions, and they're going to not be saying "Oh, yeah, the police officer was defending himself!"
Don't be stupid and believe everything you read, look at the facts, the different articles. This isn't just "poor black kid violently shot by police". This is an area with a history of racial tensions that has suddenly reached tipping point.

I have literally no idea what you're on about for the latter part of your post - it has no relevance to what has been said in the thread. Noone's implied anything like that.

This is a racial issue, sure. But saying "THE WHITE PEOPLE ARE GUILTY AW HELL NAW" is wrong. Noone knows what actually fucking happened right now, and instead of saying "BAD WHITE POLICE, BAD" we should wait for the reports from the investigation to see what actually happened, and if there's still anything dodgy about them.
Until then, all that's being done is people ranting and raving when there's no need too.

I'm not going to argue with the bulk of your issue because it's 2 in the morning and I'm tired but the quote unquote raiding that's been going on is not in defence of Brown but retaliation of the military police attacking them physically.

As I stated, I agree with the last chunk of your article.

RE: Furguson, Missouri - Kman - 08-14-2014

(08-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Robosprog Wrote: That's by no means -just- peaceful protesting. There is a lot of violence going on out there right now, saying they're innocent is wrong.

yeah cause obviously the people at fault are the rioters and not the police force that used military tactics including bringing in heavy artillery and opening fire on peaceful protesters and throwing tear gas into peoples yards to the point where it was impossible for peaceful protests to take place and riots broke out

(08-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Robosprog Wrote: It's not a racial issue

http://journolist.tumblr.com/post/94643662577/heres-a-by-the-numbers-look-at-who-lives-in

(08-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Robosprog Wrote: in so far as it, at most, is a corrupt cop.

its an entire force of corrupt cops

(08-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Robosprog Wrote: Don't be stupid and believe everything you read, look at the facts, the different articles

where are you missing the part that journalists are getting shot at and forced out whenever they enter. aside from the few very unreliable livestreams there are the only source of "facts" we have are the eyewitness reports from residents and police reports. pick who you're going to believe.

(08-14-2014, 04:20 PM)Robosprog Wrote: we should wait for the reports from the investigation to see what actually happened, and if there's still anything dodgy about them.

"lets wait for official reports from a police force that has been proven to be incredibly corrupt, violent, and racist countless times on what the true facts are on a violent act against a black man"

RE: Furguson, Missouri - Nice - 08-14-2014

yes but kmun, isnt it obvious that in a town which has more than 60% black people that in a ratio more black people are going to be stopped, searched or arrested than white people?

RE: Furguson, Missouri - PutraenusAlivius - 08-14-2014

To make things worse they arrested 2 journalists (or is it reporters), one from Huffington Post and Washington Post because they're trying to publish the event.

An alderman was arrested for some reason that I forgot.

RE: Furguson, Missouri - Kman - 08-14-2014

(08-14-2014, 04:52 PM)Robosprog Wrote: So people throwing fucking -molotov cocktails- "oh fuck that LETS BLAME THE POLICE YEAH". Are you fucking serious? "oh no MILITARY POLICE CANT BE REACTING TO THE BLATANT DANGEROUS ATTACKS"
You're so biased it's ridiculous. Yes, people shooting at reporters with rubber bullets, throwing tear gas is awful. But it's a much better fucking alternative when people are destroying livelihoods, setting fire just because fuck it.

i dont understand ive said like 3 times that basically every report said that all the protests were peaceful for the first few days and they only got violent when they started using military tactics and attacking people in their houses and you still don't seem to understand??? literally the only the reason these people are reacting the way they are is because they were forced to

(08-14-2014, 04:52 PM)Robosprog Wrote: Yeah, well done, a majority of Furguson is black, 67% when I checked - as I fucking said in my post which you left out. Cutting up shit and trying to make out as if I haven't said what it is:

Quote:This is a racial issue, sure. But saying "THE WHITE PEOPLE ARE GUILTY AW HELL NAW" is wrong. Noone knows what actually fucking happened right now
Grow the fuck up. You know I acknowledged it was.

admittedly i missed that part of that post so i apologize

with that said the way you worded that sentiment throughout shows you think the racial tension here is in some way equal between both races when if you read any of those statistics i provided any of the eyewitness accounts or really anything else regarding this its pretty clear its a powerful and evil group of white people that are using their power to abuse and hold down black people. its pretty clear what happened if you read any source regarding this and yes it really is just """"""THE WHITE PEOPLE ARE GUILTY AW HELL NAW""""""

(08-14-2014, 04:52 PM)Robosprog Wrote: Actually try and confront people's arguments at face value.

u really arent in a position to say that considering you skimmed over about half my points

(08-14-2014, 04:52 PM)Robosprog Wrote: And seriously, you missed out again on something -you- actually quoted.

Quote: and if there's still anything dodgy about them.

no i got that part of your post i just thought it was insane that you even begin to consider what such a clearly corrupt and evil source had to say. they've blatantly lied about whats happened so far and omitted huge amounts of information in an attempt to cover their own asses and yet you seriously feel like you need to wait to hear what they have to say before you form an opinion. like this isn't a case of "if theres anything dodgy about what they had to say" because i'll bet you a thousand bucks that any reports you get out of them are going to be distorted half truths that are intentionally structured to make the police out to be the good guys and the protesters to be the evil crazy animals honestly why else do you think they're keeping reporters out

(08-14-2014, 04:52 PM)Robosprog Wrote: Shut up Kman, if you aren't going to actually argue against what people are saying. You've literally just shown yourself to be an idiot here.

i got owned

RE: Furguson, Missouri - Kreekakon - 08-14-2014

Unless anyone has a truly first-hand evidence of what really happened on the scene of the exact timeline on how such events escalated from supposedly peaceful protesting into riots, then I don't think anyone can say for certain who was truly at fault.

Were the witnesses lying? Did the police actually make the first aggressive move? Who started the more armed form of conflict as opposed to a peaceful standoff? How much of the news is manipulating the truth to their channel's own bias? All of this is likely up in the air, and we can't really know for sure what has happened.

RE: Furguson, Missouri - Kreekakon - 08-14-2014

I read a couple of the articles, and these seem to be the key points as to who is at fault here:

1. The circumstance of Micheal Brown's death. Who was the aggressor? Him or the police officer?

Quote:Mr Brown was days away from heading to college when he was stopped by a police officer for walking in the middle of the street on Saturday August 9.

What happened next remains contested, with witnesses claiming Mr Brown was shot multiple times by the officer while holding his hands over his head, and police saying he had hit the officer in a struggle for the officer's gun.

2. When did the protests become violent, and which side started it? Did the protesters become violent after Brown was killed resulting in the police retaliating?

Or was it that the protests only became more passionate, but still peaceful after Brown's death. And did the police not take kindly to this, and start using more militarized methods which made the conflicts begin to snowball?

---------------------------------------

Either way though I would say that neither side as of now though is any longer in the right given various circumstances.

However my own opinion goes towards the protesters being wrong, because engaging in violent protesting despite what spurred you to do so is just wrong for reasons of disrupting the peace of the community. Peaceful protesting is fine, but escalating it to violence is not, and I personally find it more likely that the police are acting self-defense. This is my bias, and could very well be wrong.

Also worthy of note however is that people have a right to peacefully protest (As long as it does not conflict with the community), and police should not be able to forcefully run them away...which depending on the circumstances also puts the police at fault.

So both sides I believe are at fault, but it is unclear as to who was in the more wrong.

RE: Furguson, Missouri - i3670 - 08-14-2014

What's unsettling isn't the fact that these kinds of events happen. It's unsettling because it's not surprising. "Oh, another shooting in the US. Look the grass is growing!"

RE: Furguson, Missouri - eliasfrost - 08-14-2014

RE: Furguson, Missouri - AGP - 08-14-2014

(08-14-2014, 04:06 PM)Kman Wrote: all the protests started out peaceful and were for the first few days until the ferguson police reacted by bringing in tanks, snipers, fully armed riot police, rubber bullets and tear gas and sound canons.

I don't know about you, but I saw the news reports on this and the "protestors" were LOOTING stores. Several businesses were just outright robbed during this protest.

This is just getting out of hand, plain and simple. And Dogfood is right. Had this been a Caucasian death, no one would've batted an eye and it's sad that we've gotten to this point, to the point of even merely mentioning this gets slapped with a big old "Racist!" for a response.

I'm not siding with witnesses or police in this one, but destroying peoples' livelihoods (their businesses) isn't justified in this case. As they say "two wrongs do not make a right".