+- Frictional Games Forum (read-only) (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum)
+-- Forum: SOMA (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/forum-55.html)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/forum-56.html)
+--- Thread: Is Sarang a complete idiot? (/thread-31070.html)
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - Bodertz - 09-30-2015
In Sarang's view, he is not his body. He is his experience.
Imagine I snap my fingers and replace half of all your cells with an exact replica. I snap my fingers again and replace the rest. Did you die? Sarang would say no, for you are not your cells. You are the experience.
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - humanoid - 10-01-2015
(09-30-2015, 11:57 PM)Bodertz Wrote: Imagine I snap my fingers and replace half of all your cells with an exact replica. I snap my fingers again and replace the rest. Did you die? Sarang would say no, for you are not your cells. You are the experience.
Yes but the problem I have with his reasoning is that you will never "experience" your copy and vice versa so why kill yourself if there will never be any conflict of both of you existing?
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - hollowleviathan - 10-01-2015
(09-30-2015, 11:50 PM)humanoid Wrote: You did read my last paragraph, right? (the one before the PS)
"pretty safe" is not 100%, your copy is not you anymore after a certain point (that is definition dependent as I mentioned in the PS) , you even said it yourself
(09-30-2015, 11:34 PM)hollowleviathan Wrote: the act of running a brain scan is simply creating a brand new life, albeit with a full set of previous memories.
This brand new life will certainly not experience the same things you do after the scan, it could get to a point where it might question your previous decisions, including the one not to kill the other you (which is actually pretty likely in a messed up environment like Pathos-II).
I did read what you wrote, I just disagree, I don't think it applies to everyone, or even most people. When I said "pretty sure" it was because I was generalizing about any person who is copied.
I myself am certain I would never kill my copy or, if I was the copy, kill the original. The idea of distrusting your own copy sounds like a mirror of your own personality. They're just like you, decades of memories, decisions, and feelings that congealed into who you are at the moment of the scan.
Subsequently drifting into individuality for days or months isn't going to be able to change that core by too much, even if it's vastly different experiences. If you're both confined to Pathos-II, there's far less variation in experiences. How different are you as a person from who you were in May?
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - Bodertz - 10-01-2015
(10-01-2015, 12:29 AM)humanoid Wrote:(09-30-2015, 11:57 PM)Bodertz Wrote: Imagine I snap my fingers and replace half of all your cells with an exact replica. I snap my fingers again and replace the rest. Did you die? Sarang would say no, for you are not your cells. You are the experience.
Yes but the problem I have with his reasoning is that you will never "experience" your copy and vice versa so why kill yourself if there will never be any conflict of both of you existing?
You aren't experiencing anything. You *are* the experience.
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - caffeine4671 - 10-01-2015
(10-01-2015, 02:17 AM)Bodertz Wrote:(10-01-2015, 12:29 AM)humanoid Wrote:(09-30-2015, 11:57 PM)Bodertz Wrote: Imagine I snap my fingers and replace half of all your cells with an exact replica. I snap my fingers again and replace the rest. Did you die? Sarang would say no, for you are not your cells. You are the experience.
Yes but the problem I have with his reasoning is that you will never "experience" your copy and vice versa so why kill yourself if there will never be any conflict of both of you existing?
You aren't experiencing anything. You *are* the experience.
Kay. Totally not phantasmagorical and delusional thinking at all.
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - humanoid - 10-01-2015
(10-01-2015, 12:43 AM)hollowleviathan Wrote: Subsequently drifting into individuality for days or months isn't going to be able to change that core by too much, even if it's vastly different experiences. If you're both confined to Pathos-II, there's far less variation in experiences. How different are you as a person from who you were in May?
I guess thats true, your own personality would play a big part in how likely it is to distrust your other self.
Though my point was that its certainly not impossible for your other self to take that decision at some point independent of your personality, be it a few years or a few decades later.
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - Bodertz - 10-01-2015
(10-01-2015, 04:01 AM)caffeine4671 Wrote:(10-01-2015, 02:17 AM)Bodertz Wrote:(10-01-2015, 12:29 AM)humanoid Wrote:(09-30-2015, 11:57 PM)Bodertz Wrote: Imagine I snap my fingers and replace half of all your cells with an exact replica. I snap my fingers again and replace the rest. Did you die? Sarang would say no, for you are not your cells. You are the experience.
Yes but the problem I have with his reasoning is that you will never "experience" your copy and vice versa so why kill yourself if there will never be any conflict of both of you existing?
You aren't experiencing anything. You *are* the experience.
Kay. Totally not phantasmagorical and delusional thinking at all.
Step into a Star Trek Teleporter. You are teleported to the planet below. Did you die?
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - humanoid - 10-01-2015
(10-01-2015, 11:12 AM)Bodertz Wrote: Step into a Star Trek Teleporter. You are teleported to the planet below. Did you die?
Yes. But at roughly the same time an assumably exact copy of you was created somewhere else, thinking that its you and acting like its you.
As for the question whether that copy actually is you, thats in my opinion up to oneself to decide, I don't think that there is a definite "scientific" explanation that would clear this up.
After all this is still all science fiction, it would take an actual working technology of this (teleporter and/or brain "copier") to decide which is the case because then we would (hopefully) know all the facts behind it.
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - Bodertz - 10-01-2015
So you would not step into a teleporter, I guess?
As for the copy being you, I think that depends if you believe there is a soul. If you are a soul trapped in a body, then the copy is not you, but if your brain makes you, then if I were to pause your brain, there would be no difference between just unpausing it and replacing every atom with an exact copy before unpausing it.
I mean, even when you go to sleep, you die, in a sense. You lose consciousness. You no longer exist. I wake you and your brain makes you exist again. It's interesting to think about, anyway.
RE: Is Sarang a complete idiot? - hollowleviathan - 10-01-2015
(10-01-2015, 11:12 AM)Bodertz Wrote: Step into a Star Trek Teleporter. You are teleported to the planet below. Did you die?
Depending on how the teleporter works, I don't think the answer is yes or no. Your state has become uncertain.
Does the teleporter take your body composition and reassemble them on the other end as they were before, or does it scan your composition, and assemble an identical facsimile on the other end? My understanding was that it was the former, but I'm not a huge Trekkie.