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+--- Thread: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room (/thread-4116.html)
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - sacroid - 09-10-2010
Choir room sucked, I felt lost in middle of that room. It wasn't even scary though, only the Iron Maiden room (holy shit), but then it was a complete mess. I took like 30 min to find the 3 different torture rooms...
I didn't enjoyed the experience in Choir room, but the rest is just simply GREAT.
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - Perogi - 09-10-2010
When I first encountered The Choir I too instantly disliked it. In retrospect I actually kind of enjoyed it. It is very different from the rest of the levels due to it's massive size. When first entering it I quickly discovered that the only way to keep my bearings was to hug the walls. At first I ventured out forward and became quickly disoriented and lost. This evoked chiefly frustration in me but now I realize it was what made the Choir really scary. If you just wander out into the vast chamber it won't take long for you to completely lose where you are. I spent a lot of time in The Choir just because I kept getting turned around and failed to comprehend it's layout until having traveled around it two or three times.[/i]
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - ploppytheman - 09-11-2010
(09-10-2010, 04:44 PM)PerfectBlue Wrote: The overall quality of the "levels" within Amnesia is very solid; however, I found the choir room to be the exception.
The level is very bland, and to large (space wise) with a red hue and dust that obscures vision. This not only makes it look uninteresting from a aesthetic point of view, but it also fails as a level in function because it does not utilize the interplay between light and dark the way other levels execute perfectly e.g. the dungeon, or storage.
Having to navigate from one room to another to pick up the shards feels more like a chore, since there is so much space to traverse, with an occasional encounter with a brute mixed in. One plus to this area though is the iron maiden room, that was very well done.
The game is fantastic, don't get me wrong I just figured id offer my 2 cents so that Frictional Games could get some constructive criticism. Anyone share these sentiments?
I don't.
The idea of horror is to take away things from you that normally keep you comforted. This is easily seen in darkness lowering/removing your vision but also with loud machinery removing your ability to rely on hearing. There are many other things that can be removed to induce horror such as self defense (no weapons) or control of character (dizzy/controls wobbly). In this case they attempted to remove your ability to know where you were. You are in a large area where there are few landmarks, limited vision, and repetitive objects/environments. If you are not careful you will easily lose track of where you were and what the map is like. You are also more vulnerable to enemies due to the fact that there aren't shadows to hide in. That was the point of this, they changed what limitations you had and made you have to know where you were.
From the looks of this thread I can see many people got lost b/c they didn't make a mental map or prepare before they ran into the fog. I always knew where I was because I kept a mental map of where the door was. I systematically cleared this area in maybe 10-15min (I misjumped and fell down the hole...). If you found this area irritating its probably b/c you don't have a good sense of direction or spacial skills.
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - avager - 09-11-2010
(09-11-2010, 01:36 AM)ploppytheman Wrote:(09-10-2010, 04:44 PM)PerfectBlue Wrote: The overall quality of the "levels" within Amnesia is very solid; however, I found the choir room to be the exception.
The level is very bland, and to large (space wise) with a red hue and dust that obscures vision. This not only makes it look uninteresting from a aesthetic point of view, but it also fails as a level in function because it does not utilize the interplay between light and dark the way other levels execute perfectly e.g. the dungeon, or storage.
Having to navigate from one room to another to pick up the shards feels more like a chore, since there is so much space to traverse, with an occasional encounter with a brute mixed in. One plus to this area though is the iron maiden room, that was very well done.
The game is fantastic, don't get me wrong I just figured id offer my 2 cents so that Frictional Games could get some constructive criticism. Anyone share these sentiments?
I don't.
The idea of horror is to take away things from you that normally keep you comforted. This is easily seen in darkness lowering/removing your vision but also with loud machinery removing your ability to rely on hearing. There are many other things that can be removed to induce horror such as self defense (no weapons) or control of character (dizzy/controls wobbly). In this case they attempted to remove your ability to know where you were. You are in a large area where there are few landmarks, limited vision, and repetitive objects/environments. If you are not careful you will easily lose track of where you were and what the map is like. You are also more vulnerable to enemies due to the fact that there aren't shadows to hide in. That was the point of this, they changed what limitations you had and made you have to know where you were.
From the looks of this thread I can see many people got lost b/c they didn't make a mental map or prepare before they ran into the fog. I always knew where I was because I kept a mental map of where the door was. I systematically cleared this area in maybe 10-15min (I misjumped and fell down the hole...). If you found this area irritating its probably b/c you don't have a good sense of direction or spacial skills.
Exactly,
I was playing with my friend over teamspeak (we both tried to keep moving together in story line and collecting things, like: "We are going to enter through first doors on the right", and we both went in in the same time)... My friend keep losing himself in the fog, whenever I asked him where is he to meet in one place and continue our adventure, he kept telling me "I don't know ! Somewhere", or when I asked him to go to the middle bridge (there were 2 bridges, one on the right from first doors and another straight from the same doors you enter this area), he answered "Sure", after 5 minutes of waiting for him, he finally told me that he is lost and he don't know where are the entrance doors... It was annoying as hell. Waiting for someone who constantly loses himself every freaking 10 seconds... I was running like mad around, in middle of the room and I ALWAYS knew where I was...
Anyway, I just painted this map from my memories of how Choir looked like. It isn't 100% accurate especially with the placement of columns, but you get an idea of how simple this place was.
Spoiler below!
![[Image: 60314118.jpg]](http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/167/60314118.jpg)
At least, I do agree with Choir being the "worst" map in the game, didn't like it at all, It didn't fit in my opinion into whole game, dunno why, maybe that redish light and fog everywhere from vaporized blood
(redish light). But ofcourse, game was excellent and I can't wait for custom tools to be released, I'm already planning my custom level ^^ .
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - Peanuckle - 09-11-2010
That's a very useful map. I pinpointed where I am currently with it.
I, however, greatly enjoy this part due to one thing: The brutes will try to chase you no matter where you go. So when I hopped up on the fallen pillar that crossed the chasm, the brute ran right into the pit and disappeared from view (presumably dying).
I lol'd hard.
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - nofsky - 09-11-2010
It's not very hard to find the torture rooms in the choir once you figure out that you can just follow the big pipes that lead from the entrance to each of the torture rooms. I think they are there to take the sound of people getting tortured into the cells in the area near Agrippa. Notice how each cell has an open pipe in it.
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - Commando Peach - 09-11-2010
This.
It took me a while to realize it, but if you just look up, navigating the room becomes a breeze as far as knowing where you're going is concerned. Then there's just the beastie to worry about.
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - Harry - 09-11-2010
(09-11-2010, 02:20 AM)nofsky Wrote: It's not very hard to find the torture rooms in the choir once you figure out that you can just follow the big pipes that lead from the entrance to each of the torture rooms. I think they are there to take the sound of people getting tortured into the cells in the area near Agrippa. Notice how each cell has an open pipe in it.
Yeah, it's even mentioned in the note describing torture that pipes are used to funnel the sound into the awaiting victims cells.
I have to say, I actually 'loved' the choir if one can use the term. To me the expanse actually made it even more oppressive and horrific. There's something comforting about knowing an escape route, having rooms to hide in and knowing your location...all of which vanished when I foolishly wandered out of sight of the main door with no sense of direction.
Of course, when I realised I was lost, my first thought was to find a wall, and stick with it in one direction until I made it all the way back to the entrance. I think it was great design to have this massive room where you might suspect another 'chase' to occur but it actually doesn't. Games can become quite formulaic and for many of us you can tell the Choir jars us a bit, but thats whats so good about it... the fear of "surely something has to happen..."
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - RMJ - 09-11-2010
Some of us have good memory map skills, i mean Wolfenstein 3d, the kings of all maze games. Newer games may have dulled our sense with functions such as maps, arrows and such nooby stuff, so its not our full our mental mapping overview memory has been dulled xD.
Problem i had was when i ran into THE DUDE. and he or it chased me, then i lost total direction of where i was, I most say i thought the map was bigger than that map someone in this thread has drawn, its amazing how fog can make stuff seems so much bigger, when you cant really see the wall to draw out a mental picture.
RE: Worst Level Design in the game- the Choir room - thePyro13 - 09-11-2010
My only gripe with the room is the repetitiveness of it. Its just pillar after pillar. If the terrain was more interesting/varied it would have been a far better experience.
It actually broke my immersion going through that room. The room doesn't seem to have any purpose and is far bigger than it needs to be(from a castle point of view). It makes me wonder, why? If it was more like a courtyard or something then maybe. It just seemed weird to be honest.