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+--- Thread: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? (/thread-18504.html)
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - Sexbad - 10-02-2012
PS: Soldier of Fortune 2 has bullet spread, though the dynamic crosshair was turned off in that video.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - the dark side - 10-02-2012
@sexbad, i am aware that Soldier Of Fortune II, even with the dynamic hairs kayo'd, has bullet spread, i mean, i have owned the gold edition of the game since new! (and play with the dynamic hairs kayo'd) but the bullet spread is handled very differently to most "modern Shooter" type games.
you see, in SOF II, or many other Silver Age Games, if you circle straffe the enemy with the AK47, you will still actually hit him, and often!, sure, some bullets will miss the target due to bullet spread, but, it will only be about 8 of them, the other 22 are still going to hit the enemy.
whereas in a more modern title, even if you are standing stock still the bullet spread "from the hip" is so extreme, that you are lucky if ONE of the Thirty rounds of 7.65X39 in the magazine hits the target unless you are in sites.
that is highly unrealistic, in a battle it is often impossible to stop and Aim down sites, or even take cover, so soliders are trained to be able to fire reasonably accuratly "from the hip", as seen in the SOF II vid.
as a result, the extreme bulletspread of a modern shooter not only makes the game, in my opinion, pretty darn unplayable (i rank any game that isn't entertaining as unplayable), but it also makes the player look more like an NRA psychopath with no idea how to handle his weapon than a professional soldier.
were as the much lesser levels of bulletspread in a classic, like SOFII, it keeps the game very playable IMO, as you can still circle straffe and run and gun, but the mild levels of innacuracy and bullet spread also makes the game feel more real, but you feel like a pro Spec ops Soldier, who has been trained to handle his gun, hence the 8 AK rounds that miss due to bullet spread are down to the mechanical Innacuracy of the AK, and not because the player avatar doesnt know how to handle the weapon correctly.
i mean my project has a LITTLE bit of bullet spread on some weapons, but its only like 8 out of 30 rounds for the AK that will miss, or 2 out of 30 for say the Mp5 that will miss, to give the guns a little bit of "mechanical innacuracy" so the game feels a tiny bit more real without forcing the player to stand still and aim all the time because the avatar doesnt know how to handle the damn gun!
speaking of turning the dynamic hairs off, the real reason why i hate modern games for having dynamic hairs is because in a modern title you CANT TURN THEM OFF! for some reason, i mean, come on!, how long would it take the developer to programme in an option to change them to static ones, like you could in SOFII, the 2 NOLF Games, the JACK spin off, etc? 5 mins if that, i mean, Resistance 3, a console title! lets you turn the dynamic effect off and go to static crosshairs, so why cant any of the other games out there that use the dynamic effect now?
now, i only posted that SOF II vid because it gave an example of how my own project plays in a shootout situation, it took me a Long time to find any video at all that came close at all!. as in, No health regen, armour and medkit pick ups, GALLONS of blood and gore, static crosshairs, run and gun, peak and lean, circle straffe, no gun-limit, Good old fashioned "old school FPS" fun.
@ ALL, now, please, i must ask people to stop poking holes in my video choices, or going off topic with random "its not realistic so it sukz" (Not had that one yet, but i'm expecting it!) slamdowns.
i know now what graphics and physics engines my dev team will be using, now i know that C.E.3 and PHYS-X can be programmed to do what i want.
so what i want people to do now is ask me questions about the gameplay of the project, so i can create an FAQ gameplay article for Publishers to look at when i present them the gameplay demo. would you help create that FAQ by asking me questions on the gameplay mechanics, or on FUCE and FUIE, or on level thematics, anything that isnt related to story or characthers Please?, thankyou.
TDS
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - Arvuti - 10-02-2012
Seriously can you shorten your posts please, literally every post you make in this thread is several paragraphs long.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 10-03-2012
Quote: so what i want people to do now is ask me questions about the gameplay of the project, so i can create an FAQ gameplay article for Publishers to look at when i present them the gameplay demo. would you help create that FAQ by asking me questions on the gameplay mechanics, or on FUCE and FUIE, or on level thematics, anything that isnt related to story or characthers Please?, thankyou.Why don't you just write a proper Game Design Document? Most Publishers will expect that anyway and you'll also need it in case you want to apply for financial support from certain institutions. (Don't know where you're from, but here in Germany you can get financial support from the Medienbord for example if you have a startup company and a promising project to present them.)
A game design document will also greatly help you in organizing your ideas, focussing on the important parts and presenting them to your team. It can also inlude an art guide and the like and is generally good to keep everybody on track and keeping the core vision of the game intact throughout the project.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - the dark side - 10-03-2012
@arvuti, sorry but no, a short post will not be able to get across all the information required to aid people to understand the reasoning behind my decisions, i have never posted short messages.
@hirnwirbel, i already have a partial gameplay design document, its not complete though, as according to one of my interested devs (clue words as to who they are: "piano", "texas"), Publishers want a gameplay design document that explains WHY risky "old fashioned" mechanics have been chosen over more modern "mainstream" mechanics, and i cant just say "because i like them" , i need to explain WHY i have chosen those mechanics in terms of what they offer to people in my target market, and i am afraid that, for the life of me, i cannot work out HOW to phrase it on the document, so i fiqured that, perhaps explaining it to someone who knows about game design, without bothering a pro dev as they are sinply too busy to help, could help me to work out hopw to phrase it in the document, so i can complete it, and they can point out were i might be rambling, or usiong words that are too "elitist" and will put publishers off.
they also want a gameplay FAQ, the thing i mentioned, for there marketing division, so marketing can work out how to emphasise the entertainment behind the old school gameplay within there advertising campaign. Seeing as the usual "rap music, boobiez, explosions, soldiers, big guns, more explosions" type advert will turn the games target market right off as they will just think its "just another modern fps, boring!" and not the sort of "silver age throwback" they have been yearning for, so the advertising campaign will have to epmphasis the gameplay. in order to make that kind of campaign, they need to know what the gaempely is, and why its like that, but the dont have the time to read a 600 page game design document, they want a quick, bulletpointed, 2 page gameplay FAQ as that takes less time to read.
i am from the UK, indeed, a document might help me get that tax rebate games developed in the UK are going to get, wich might make publishers a bit more willing to take a risk,.
the game vision cannot stray in terms of gameplay, as i have set the copyright up so it can only be leased from me, and i retain 100% creative controll, in short, anyone who takes it up must abide by my decisions, so if they say, for arguments sake, try to use regenerating health when the lease conditions cleary state that, (and this is from the genuine lease condtions page), "any form of automatic health point recovery, IE, regenerative health, is Strictly prohibited in any and all forms or concepts" they are going to be in serious Fyfe for breach of lease.
I do have an art guide as part of the design document though, wich will be mandatory seeing as the game globe-hops, so i need to ensure the right art artifacts are in the correct locations, your not going to find an african shanty town in the middle of Albania for example.
I Also have a semi completed acheivments list, as you need "'cheevo's" for steam support (cant complete it however, untill i know all the weapons, and i can't know all of those without a publisher as i need a weapons expert, because well, in this country even looking at IMFDB is liable to result in the police wanting to know WHY you are looking at guns, its why the weapons list is also incomplete as i want weapons to be 100% correct for faction, unit type and area of level, your not going to find an M16A4 in the hands of an "assault soldier" in the middle of Siberia, its more liklely to be an AEK-971-G with "winter spec" White Furniture, so i need a weapons expert before i can finish that), it also contains prototype level design maps, the story and plotline in both synopsis and full forms, the charachter list and bios, charachter art, level art, gameplay elements, the copyright lease conditions, prototype setpeice element order, BOSS AI routines, standard AI Routines, concept HUD artworks (the game needs a HUD in order to display ammo ammount, weapon slected, fire mode selected, the weapons wheel selector (when activated) , Health and (depending on level, you cant always wear armour) Armour readouts (percentage based by default, its easierr to understand than "bar" form, but "bar" form is optional), the static crosshairs, etc) an incomplete weapons list, menu GUI concept art, etc,
so please, i would like people to ask me questions on my gameplay mechanic choices, so i can work out, via explaining the market targeting reasons here, how to phrase my reasoning in the gameplay design document, for without Sound and logical Market targeted reasoning for my choices, the publisher will probably demand i change them to modern day gameplay mechanics to gain the "casual" market that they are obsessed with attracting, at wich point i will just remove the coywright off them for breaching the lease, as i REFUSE point blank to have my game turned into 1, a form of game that i HATE with every fibre of my being, and 2, someting that will never sell well, simply because the main segment (12-15 year old Americans) of that market buys, pretty much exclusivly, only FPS games that have "Call Of Duty" or "Battlefeild" written on the box. so i will have to tell any publisher that tries to change the game from a silver age throwback to a dark age mess to basically go forth and do something incredibly rude and physically impossible, and i really dont want to do that, as it would severly damage my chances of EVER getting another publisher. so i REALLY need some sound market targeted reasoning, and i would REALLY appreciate some help in working out how to phrase them by having people ask me queastions on my gameplay choices, or anacronyms such as F.U.C.E.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - Acies - 10-03-2012
I think you asked for this earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFqNh-hxme8&feature=player_detailpage#t=70s
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - the dark side - 10-03-2012
Awesome! thanks Acies, that really is exactly the sort of environment destruction animation and physcs i want plus, the FPS section later shows UR4 can handle Static hairs without modification, a high running speed appears to be default, and... holy cow, full HUD with healthbar?, that is everthing i am after, Brlliant! (hmm i wonder, could epic be making a golden age throwback FPS project? man, im gonna definatly keep my eyes on the gaming newsletters! ),
plus, it looks like its actually got Anti Aliasing by default! (unusual for a modern engine) as i didnt see any jaggies, thanks acies, i will Definatly keep an eye on Unreal 4 and see how it stacks up cost wise to my other 2 choices of a Heavuilly modified C.E.3 or a Heavilly Modified Source, UR3 got knocked out as it cost to much to get default and needed to much work to bring it up to spec. UR4, if the price is right, certainly looks like the engine i want, Thanks man! i owe you one!.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 10-04-2012
Wait, wait, wait...let me get this straight. You have a serious interest in game development, have been planning a big FPS project for years to the point where you even invested money to get your IP copyrighted, you're working together with professional game developers - but you've never heard of Unreal Engine 4 before this video? Dude, I don't want to sound condescending, but thats just strange.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - the dark side - 10-04-2012
I had heard of unreal engine 4, i just didnt expect much from it, as many games engines are made for console now, i expected the usual "next gen Engine" that had nice effects, but, a dog slow Frame Rate and enough Jaggies to re-sink the titanic due to the hopelessly outdated console technology most "next gen engines" have been designed for (xbox 360 for example is six years out of date!) . i was also kind of biased against unreal engine anyway due to the Ludicrous price epic are still asking for the business version of Unreal 3 despite the fact it is miles out of date, i am not going to give away 25% of the profits to epic, or anyone else, because i want to pile the profits into developing a Sequal game. so i wasnt considering unreal 4 at all as i Assumed Incorrectly that it would be little more than UR3 with a new coat of paint, rather like FOX engine is just the MGS4 engine with a few new whistles and is very dissapointing given all the hype.
That was until that video at least. it seems i have made my Usual mistake of "jumping the cannon" about the engine. now i am seriously interested in the UR4 engine, as, unlike nearly every other next gen engine, its been designed for PC so has Anti Alaising and A Blistering frame rate by default with the gameplay i want by default as well as it is the preference of PC players (at least, according to my market research). i am just waiting for epic to start putting prices about so i can see how it compares to using a slightly older engine with upgrades.
don't worry about sounding condescending, i will admit myself my post looked like i hadn't heard of the engine, wich is ultra strange! thats like having a formula one driver who hasnt heard of paddleshifters. i had heard of UR4, i just wasnt considering it until now. now i know it does Everything i want and even has the Gameplay i want programmed in as default so my team wont need to modify the code much, i am Seriously giving it some thaught!
Seeing as it is a new IP and i've only got a potential Maximum budget of $4,000,000 (About £2.8 mil) due to its niche nature (and that is going to take one Gutsy publisher to give that much) and i want to spend no less than 80% of the budget on the Campaign, i am not going to have too much money to splash on the graphics. but i know i am going to need a seriously impressive engine because i know that if i want Decent sales (and who doesnt want decent sales?), ive got to use a HD engine with all the latest graphical tricks, because PC games sell on there graphics.
So, if the price is right, UR4 is certainly the engine i am going to use, if it isnt right, and a modified CE3 would be cheaper, then ill use that instead, because i am going to be on a very tight budget, as even the maximum one is very small, and the one i expect to get will probably be half of the max at best, and as im not fussed about graphics and am more concerned with gameplay, and am only looking for a powerfull engine in order to help the game sell well, i am not willing to blow more than 10% of the budget on the graphics engine, so price of engine is going to play a very big role for game one, of course, for game 2, if i sell enough to get a sequal opportunity, ill have a much bigger budget and will be able to just go for the best engine there is without worrying about price.
RE: Graphics and physics engines, wich offer what i want? - Arvuti - 10-04-2012
What the hell are you talking about ? You are bad mouthing unreal engine 3 way too much, licensing cryengine 3 takes up to 1 million dollars. Meanwhile you can use UDK which is identical to UE3, the only difference is that you don't have access to it's source code. That video of UE4 barely even showcased UE4, most of the video was unreal engine 3.
None of the "next gen" engines are designed for 360 and PS3, they are designed for upcoming X720 (or something) and PS4. Unreal Engine 3 etc are current generation engines.
Also you will be able to license unreal engine 4 in 2014. It's not finished yet.
I still think you are just trolling us, if you apparently have a developer willing to develop your idea then who are they. I would be interested to know who would take up an idea made by some unknown person who apparently (according to your profile) has a mental age of 11