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+--- Thread: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. (/thread-25136.html)
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Acies - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 02:21 AM)Abraxas Wrote:Quote:Sex sells, and they abuse that all the time.
No, but objectification does. If sex sold, you'd see more erotic content. Not to mention male characters being subjected to the same ridiculous tropes the female ones are.
Also, women and girls make up about 47% of the gaming market these days, so gaming companies need to re-think the stereotypes and tropes they use (although personally, they could have done it looong ago and NOT depended on such a crutch).
Honestly, I might look when I see a nearly nude women on a game cover, but it's pretty much immediately followed by an eye roll.
I might be completely off, but you seem to be implying that 'sex sells' is a literal referral or that it requires full-on nudes for the term to be applicable. Altough this just becomes a discussion on semantics, reading from the wikipedia article the expression 'sex sells' encompasses anything which makes the target market think of sex, be it larger than average breasts, skimpy clothes on a female body or 'a young-innocent-cute female character'.
I was surprised to learn that women represented almost half of the market. I tried to find the study in order to see what kind of games they measured - if games such as 'farmville' or other browsing games are included. Is the data based on purchases or surveys? I might have a skewed vision of the percent of females playing games, because I play the exceptions/games where there is a majority of men (Diablo 3, Counterstrike global offensive, heroes of newerth, amnesia/this forum). It might also be the fact that women play amnesia, but don't register themselves on this forum in the same extent as men.
The study:
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2012.pdf
In the end I didn't become much wiser by reading the study. I'm still unsure of how they collected data or if internet games (on facebook for example) are included in the study. If, for example, the sale of games are used in measuring data - the whole demograph of boys under 18 playing COD/shooters are being represented by their mothers as they buy the games for them.
Well, on-topic: I believe a lot of these issues also stem from the fact that the gaming industry (the companies) is heavily represented by males. Even at a company aware of the gender issues in games, a majority of the workforce is male and their ultimate goal is to create something which sells/is fun - and they will do so from a 'male perspective'. I'm not saying such a company would create in-game women with opulent breasts or a male main character. There will be 'male undertones' to the other parts of the game though; be it game-mechanics, stylistic choices or pacing. A game might be 'female-friendly' on paper, but not so much while in-game - due to what I previously mentioned.
Take the above post as an example for pointing out these undertones:
(04-23-2014, 09:03 AM)Alardem Wrote: There's a lot of marketing and critical 'praise' thrown upon those two games for their supposedly "progressive" characters. While I do see value in both stories (Lara's for providing a story about a woman overcoming adversity, and Elizabeth for a sheltered girl being exploited by paternal figures), there's still a lot of disturbing elements in their characterizations that I'm sure would not be thrown upon male characters.
And sure, I believe that males may very well create entertainment which may or may not take the gender-question into consideration and still provide great joy for either gender. I do believe however that there's a unmet need for games created by females, directed at females with female undertones and choices permeating the game. What I'm trying to say is that both genders can enjoy games with either 'undertone', but currently there are none with female undertones which makes the market one-sided in the choices available.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - 7heDubz - 04-23-2014
I think when he said sex sells he meant it as in very attractive characters sell. Which they do, and if you haven't noticed (i'm sure some of the guys haven't -_-) the male characters have been getting more attention to their looks as well as the females.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Rapture - 04-23-2014
@Acies - Seeing as how they have little to no "context" on most of that content. I'm assuming they include every woman who has ever played a game in their life in that 47% category.
Even then, "Game Player's is a very vague term to begin with. Is that someone who doesn't completely hate games 100%?
If you only hate them 90% of the time, are you included in that graph?
How many people do they even have listed to get that % ratio anyways...
(I don't even trust the validity of these info-graphics simply because how skewed they can be. They probably did a text questionnaire send out.
Do you know who actually filled it out and send it back? Personality traits, people who are out going, talking to friends, Facebook addicts, people who 1000 friends, etc. Odd balls like my family would never answer these.
It's not that they intentionally try to make it unfair in showing all the sides, but it's very easy to mess things like this up.)
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - VaeVictis - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 01:03 PM)Rapture Wrote: @Acies - Seeing as how they have little to no "context" on most of that content. I'm assuming they include every woman who has ever played a game in their life in that 47% category.
Even then, "Game Player's is a very vague term to begin with. Is that someone who doesn't completely hate games 100%?
If you only hate them 90% of the time, are you included in that graph?
How many people do they even have listed to get that % ratio anyways...
(I don't even trust the validity of these info-graphics simply because how skewed they can be. They probably did a text questionnaire send out.
Do you know who actually filled it out and send it back? Personality traits, people who are out going, talking to friends, Facebook addicts, people who 1000 friends, etc. Odd balls like my family would never answer these.
It's not that they intentionally try to make it unfair in showing all the sides, but it's very easy to mess things like this up.)
What conclusion are you trying to draw here? The point is that many more woman play video games than they used to, and should thus be treated as a large portion of the demographic.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Bridge - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 02:21 AM)Abraxas Wrote: Not to mention male characters being subjected to the same ridiculous tropes the female ones are.
Because only women are objectified, right?
![[Image: commando-schwarzenegger.jpg]](http://collegetribune.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/commando-schwarzenegger.jpg)
(04-23-2014, 09:15 AM)Alardem Wrote: While I do see value in both stories (Lara's for providing a story about a woman overcoming adversity, and Elizabeth for a sheltered girl being exploited by paternal figures)
Women overcoming adversity is different from men overcoming adversity? Even though both of these little synopses sound absolutely retarded to me, a piece of art like a game is not defined solely by "what it's about." If you are willing to ignore everything that makes it artistic and just go straight for the "subtext," why not just compress it into a few sentences and get it over with. "Women are just as capable as men and should not be subservient to them." If you only look at art as a tool for "social change," well, I feel sorry for you. Incidentally I didn't like Tomb Raider, it was a poor game with especially poor writing and I agree that Lara's character was nothing to write home about.
(04-23-2014, 11:45 AM)Acies Wrote: And sure, I believe that males may very well create entertainment which may or may not take the gender-question into consideration and still provide great joy for either gender. I do believe however that there's a unmet need for games created by females, directed at females with female undertones and choices permeating the game. What I'm trying to say is that both genders can enjoy games with either 'undertone', but currently there are none with female undertones which makes the market one-sided in the choices available.
Absolutely disgusting. Should black people also have their black people games with black people undertones? How about we stop speaking in vaguenesses and lay down some concrete definitions: What is a female undertone? And here's a bonus question: Can you point out any male-specific undertones?
EDIT: Just a fair warning, these questions are rhetorical because I don't believe in them. I can and will (unless you make impressive arguments) dismiss them with a reference to vicariousness.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Wooderson - 04-23-2014
Another example... Look at Sam and Dean from Supernatural. If they weren't as attractive as they are then a significant amount of the female audience wouldn't bother to watch.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Kreekakon - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 01:58 PM)Wooderson Wrote: Another example... Look at Sam and Dean from Supernatural. If they weren't as attractive as they are then a significant amount of the female audience wouldn't bother to watch.
I actually think that doesn't matter. As long as the actors/actresses aren't absolutely ugly I do not think their appearances/sex appeal contributes much to an appreciation, or distaste of a show.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Nice - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 02:02 PM)Kreekakon Wrote:(04-23-2014, 01:58 PM)Wooderson Wrote: Another example... Look at Sam and Dean from Supernatural. If they weren't as attractive as they are then a significant amount of the female audience wouldn't bother to watch.
I actually think that doesn't matter. As long as the actors/actresses aren't absolutely ugly I do not think their appearances/sex appeal contributes much to an appreciation, or distaste of a show.
as someone that watches supernatural I have to agree with Lucke.
There's erotic gay fanfictions between the two main actors all over the place, when they have some sort of a meetup with fans or how are those events called, most of the audience are physically unfit women that laugh at everything the two say in the most "overly attached gf" kind of way even though the two didnt mean it to be funny.
You look at supernatural videos, 80% comments are going to be either adoring how hot the two actors look or "omgomgomg i want them to have sex they're so hot"
even the directors of the series noticed it, so the new episodes are having more and more gay sexual innuendos.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Wooderson - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 02:02 PM)Kreekakon Wrote:(04-23-2014, 01:58 PM)Wooderson Wrote: Another example... Look at Sam and Dean from Supernatural. If they weren't as attractive as they are then a significant amount of the female audience wouldn't bother to watch.
I actually think that doesn't matter. As long as the actors/actresses aren't absolutely ugly I do not think their appearances/sex appeal contributes much to an appreciation, or distaste of a show.
Nah with Supernatural Jensen and Jared are what keep that show alive. From the few girls i've spoken to that watch the show they all say that they started watching it because they are hot and that their hotness is their favourite part. Their frank honesty was not really shocking at all.
RE: Genders in Gaming Target Audiences. - Alardem - 04-23-2014
(04-23-2014, 01:32 PM)Bridge Wrote: Because only women are objectified, right?
[Insert obligatory statement about how hyperpowerful muscleman does not equal half-naked skinny lady.]
Quote:Women overcoming adversity is different from men overcoming adversity? Even though both of these little synopses sound absolutely retarded to me, a piece of art like a game is not defined solely by "what it's about." If you are willing to ignore everything that makes it artistic and just go straight for the "subtext," why not just compress it into a few sentences and get it over with. "Women are just as capable as men and should not be subservient to them." If you only look at art as a tool for "social change," well, I feel sorry for you. Incidentally I didn't like Tomb Raider, it was a poor game with especially poor writing and I agree that Lara's character was nothing to write home about.
Tactful much? Calling me retarded and 'feeling sorry' for me is not the best way to debate.
We have the right to call something out as creepy if it comes off to us as such. Art is definitely a great tool for socially impacting people. It doesn't exist in a mysterious void that gets materialized by certain people - it's a product of our mindsets, and people who consume it either consciously or subconsciously respond to it base off their own mindsets.Quote:EDIT: Just a fair warning, these questions are rhetorical because I don't believe in them. I can and will (unless you make impressive arguments) dismiss them with a reference to vicariousness.
You "believe in nothing". Yet you've put some effort into being a contrarian. I see a disconnect here.