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Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs Discussion Topic Part 1 - Printable Version

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RE: Improving monsters - Kreekakon - 10-23-2012

How come I get the strange feeling that your post was written by two different people? Also, how is the picture of a brain relevant in your post?...
(10-23-2012, 05:24 PM)Piacesi Wrote: If you (in game, your character) have fear your sanity going down, but i hope the FRICTIONAL creat a new reactions of the brain, for example, if you receive damage your sanity down to 60% or to 50%, or receive a beautiful fright, your sanity down to 50% or 25%...
I thought Amnesia already had that?

RE: Improving monsters - Piacesi - 10-23-2012

(10-23-2012, 05:29 PM)Kreekakon Wrote: How come I get the strange feeling that your post was written by two different people? Also, how is the picture of a brain relevant in your post?...
(10-23-2012, 05:24 PM)Piacesi Wrote: If you (in game, your character) have fear your sanity going down, but i hope the FRICTIONAL creat a new reactions of the brain, for example, if you receive damage your sanity down to 60% or to 50%, or receive a beautiful fright, your sanity down to 50% or 25%...
I thought Amnesia already had that?
the first post ( page 1 ) is of a opinion of my friend the 2 up her is my now

RE: Improving monsters - MyRedNeptune - 10-23-2012

(10-23-2012, 05:24 PM)Piacesi Wrote: Is hard to improve reactions in the monsters, but (IN MY OPINION NOW) other idea is to the monsters, use tactics to kill you, for example, hide and wait to you pass... Get a improved reaction of the monsters to you, and too, the reactions of his character, for example, you ( in game) get screams of fright, if you receive some damage, you scream and start move more slow...
Remember that improved AI does not necessarily equate to monsters being better at killing you.

RE: Improving monsters - Piacesi - 10-23-2012

(10-23-2012, 08:25 PM)MyRedNeptune Wrote:
(10-23-2012, 05:24 PM)Piacesi Wrote: Is hard to improve reactions in the monsters, but (IN MY OPINION NOW) other idea is to the monsters, use tactics to kill you, for example, hide and wait to you pass... Get a improved reaction of the monsters to you, and too, the reactions of his character, for example, you ( in game) get screams of fright, if you receive some damage, you scream and start move more slow...
Remember that improved AI does not necessarily equate to monsters being better at killing you.
(10-23-2012, 08:25 PM)MyRedNeptune Wrote: yes i remenber but is not that, if you see, the monster simply attack you if they see you. I get this message to the frictional improve reactions and tactics for the monsters to kill you. ''to improve the physics''...


RE: Improving monsters - machine for pigs - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 10-24-2012

Don't forget: Frictional do not want to kill the player. Or when they do, they only do it very, very rarely and in a situation where it creates maximum impact. It sounds strange, but it makes sense when you think about it. As soon as the player dies, that wonderful arc of fear and tension is suddenly released. When used at the perfect moment it can be like the dramatic climax of a carefully orchestrated symphony, but there will always be a sense of relief following.
It reminds you that its just a game, because while the monster is hunting you, you can convince yourself that you're really in danger. But when it really hits you in the face and kills you, your brain can't help but realize afterwards "hey, wait a second - this doesn't hurt at all! Guess I was wrong to be scared." And I don't think that in the end it matters much how smart the monster acted to achieve that result Wink

I think an actual smart AI only makes sense when you're in some sort of competition against it. You definitely want challenging, clever opponents in a shooter and you want stealth games to be difficult due to smart guards (to a certain degree, as i mentioned earlier Wink ). But in a horror game what matters most is facade, atmosphere, make-believe not the actual game mechanics. You're not supposed to see a horror game as a challenge or competition.
So it will be more than enough - and probably more effective - if the horror game suceeds at making you believe the monsters are smart. So the goal of the AI is not to actually use clever ways to kill the player ('cuz we don't want him to die, we want to torture him), but to avoid obvious immersion-breaking AI glitches and somehow make it feel like there's more to the monsters than there really is.

RE: Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs Discussion - Jack O'Lantern - 10-24-2012

I'd prefer more post-mortem consequences. 'Justine' is an extreme example, but when I respawned in The Dark Descent, it took away a lot of the tension and immersion.

I'm a huge fan of horror movies, and when I'm watching them alone in a dark room, the black screen just before the end credits really gets to me. If it's been a creepy movie, I find myself fearfully looking around the room (which is no longer illuminated by the television screen), searching the shadows for signs of danger. Creepy, creepy stuff.

Imagine being hunted down by a creature, chased, killed, and then sitting there in darkness, staring at the black computer screen for twenty seconds as the music subsides. Waiting, begging, praying for it to end. And imagine how many players would turn on a lamp to help get them through it.

RE: Improving monsters - machine for pigs - Piacesi - 10-24-2012

to: Hirnwirbel

The amnesia is a game to use your smart, to escape or hide of the enemys. but if the frictional games hunt a good game, need improve the monster, and improve reactions in your character. For example if you receive damage your character does scream in amnesia dark descent. I hope to the frictional creat more animations and reactions to his character and to the monsters too.

RE: Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs Discussion - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 10-24-2012

Aye, player death and its consequences are the most challenging problem thechineseroom will have to face with this game. (I think we discussed it about 10-20 pages ago Wink ) Its a paradox in a way: The player has to be afraid of dieing, but as soon as he really dies, all tension is lost. Making the game more difficult for example will increase fear of death, but will also increase the number of player deaths, thus diminishing the overall experience as the player gets used to it.

Having something with a little more impact happen upon player death is one way to deal with the problem. But it depends: The quick respawn in Amnesia was an attempt on Frictionals side to keep the player in the "flow" as much as possible. It worked in a way but it also made death meaningless after a while. Having a long black screen for example would be the other extreme - a lot of impact but it will completely break the flow. I don't know which is better?

I think an interesting idea would be to play with uncertainty as a horror element. Trying to keep the player in the dark for as long as possible on what exactly will happen when the monster catches him. The problem with that is that due to their previous gaming experience, every player will automatically assume that he will simply get killed when the monster gets him. So the first step would be to break that apart and make the player "unlearn" what he knows about how games work so far. But it would take an actual game designer to figure out how to do that, not an artist like me Wink

RE: Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs Discussion - Kreekakon - 10-24-2012

Quote:The problem with that is that due to their previous gaming experience, every player will automatically assume that he will simply get killed when the monster gets him. So the first step would be to break that apart and make the player "unlearn" what he knows about how games work so far. But it would take an actual game designer to figure out how to do that, not an artist like me Wink

If it was up to me, something I might do is to hint early on through some sort of part-cinematic encounter what exactly happens when you get caught by the monster, and do it in such an aggressive-subtle matter that the player will get the message for sure.

RE: Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs Discussion - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 10-24-2012

Yeah that could work... or maybe make it so that the player is never sure if there is even a monster and if yes, what it is and what it can do. Like, if you tell the player "this is a ghost story", he will expect ghosts. But if you don't let him know for example if there is anything supernatural in this game world or not, his own mind will form all sorts of theories every time something strange happens.

Another thing I've been musing about is how to reach out to the player. Like, how must feedback be designed so that it reinforces what the player is assuming about the game world?

For example, its obviously impossible to make the player feel pain when his character gets hit. Thus, when the players character takes damage, the feedback loop is broken, since what happens on screen and what the player feels aren't synchronized anymore.

Same problem goes for smelling and tasting, obviously, which leaves us with visuals and sound. Both are being used to great effect already, but I feel that they are slowly reaching their limits of what can be done in terms of making the player feel uneasy.

So, in a way we need something to compensate for those missing feedback channels or the experience will always be more shallow than it would be if it was real. Tapping into the players imagination is the way to go here I think. Sometimes it is impossible to feel pain in dreams, but they can still be more terrifying than every game. So there is a lot of potential if one uses the players own brain as the main means of scaring him. Or take empathy for example - many people cringe when they see another person get hurt or when they hear descriptions of gruesome torture techniques, even though they don't feel pain themselves at that moment...
Just some random thoughts... would like to hear yours. Until further teaser material surfaces, there isn't much to discuss about AMFP here anyway so we might as well discuss horror in general here Wink