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RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - Corbent - 09-13-2013

(09-13-2013, 11:32 PM)rotten Wrote: Corbent
We cannot disregard the twins' diary which has an entry in October, when they have long come back from Mexico. The twins even live to see the pig in the garden.

I already said that in my opinion he killed them between 23 November and 1 December. I think it was in a temple which was found under the Machine. See these entries:
"Later you used your spoon to dig a hole in the garden to get all the way to Mexico"
"How could a child's spine be made like clockwork? I washed it carefully and placed it on the mantelpiece, by the egg I laid myself, under the garden where the childrens' skulls are buried. I call it my Mexico."

So I think this temple is exactly under the garden and he sees it as his own Mexico. It is there that he sacrifices his children and as for 3000 miles... maybe he's referring to the depth, because he wanted to reach the Earth's core.

Yes, this is all right. I'm still re -reading the notes on the list. I still don't get how is it possible to find an Aztec temple under London. I was in particular trying to figure out two notes on different dates that are very similar, talking exactly about that topic.

Spoiler below!

December 2nd 1899
Walking away from those temples, that small pile of stones under the rhododendrons. The skulls of innocence under the loose clod. Headless ribcages in the cool stone behind the altars, three thousand miles apart. I trace back my life to this instance, rain channels eroded in ancient stone. The toxins are already in this damp, this falling water.I hack and retch and vomit into the sink and grasp the bowl with both hands and stare. There in the plughole, as clear as day, a toy spine, clockwork and intricate, like a child's spine, but clockwork. How could that be? How could a child's spine be made like clockwork? I washed it carefully and placed it on the mantelpiece, by the egg I laid myself, under the garden where the childrens' skulls are buried. I call it my Mexico.

Spoiler below!

25th December 1899: If You Should Find This
Then you already know all I would tell you. You already know what you have done, and what you must now do. Walking away from those temples, that small pile of stones beneath the rhododendrons. The skulls of innocence under the loose clod. Headless ribcages, cruelly torn asunder to expose their flowers, in the cool stone, behind the altars, three thousand miles away.I trace my life to this instant, rain channels eroded in ancient stone. The toxins are already in this damp, this falling water.And in that instant, cradling my children's heads in my palms, I knew then I had to unbuild what I myself had constructed, though even then it was little more than a sickening dream. This machine is ever mine, and it falls to me to redeem it, and myself.


The second one is pretty much the same but more aggresive.

EDIT: Typos.

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - rotten - 09-13-2013

Quote: I still don't get how is it possible to find an Aztec temple under London.
Did you read some of H.P. Lovecraft's works? I own a full collection of his works and for me this is not so surprising as I clearly see a lovecraftian overtone here. Finding an aztec temple beneath London? No problem, sir!


Then again, this all can be a metaphor/a dream/a hallucination.

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - Tiger - 09-13-2013

Does anyone know why Mandus says "Precious Eagle cactus fruit" in the first telephone-"conversation"?

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - Corbent - 09-13-2013

(09-13-2013, 11:54 PM)Tiger Wrote: Does anyone know why Mandus says "Precious Eagle cactus fruit" in the first telephone-"conversation"?

I can't confirm all this is truth, but there is a topic about it on Steam Community.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/239200/discussions/0/864978762506986436/

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - PathOS - 09-14-2013

Some of the notes do seem to indicate that the manpigs are still human, or somewhat human, though that seems to change depending on things since Mandus seemed to favor lobotomizing them. Though this note sounds like it was written by a manpig:
Spoiler below!
What exhumation is this, what rotten fruit, what be-stitching of parts?
I doubt I will ever be found, yet I leave you this, scrawled in
the malodorous half-light, whilst my tormentor shuffles below, my fellow
prisoners keen and squeal in the gloam, and where I wait for the
knocking upon my cage that signifies it is, finally, my turn to make
that dark journey into the interior


RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - FromTheSidelines - 09-14-2013

(09-13-2013, 04:57 PM)Integria Wrote: Might just be me, but I am increasingly of the belief that the machine does not exist at all. The several references to an 'air loom' - a machine that James Tilly Matthews believed to exist for nefarious purposes of tormenting him. James Tilly Matthews is considered the first case of paranoid schizophrenia.

Is it possible that the machine in this case is simply the mind, the memories of a deeply disturbed man?

The changing paths in the game as we enter deeper into the machine makes a tad more sense to me this way. As we unravel our memories, things are not as they might initially have seemed.

All the impenetrable barriers (Whilst the fuse is blown, the motor cannot be spun, and the gates will remain an impenetrable barrier to progress.)? Memories blocked away to shield a fragile mind.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the right accessment of the story, but some of it might be. It seems quite likely that our main character is suffering from some sort of paranoid schizophrenia, perhaps even MPD.

I'm mostly confounded by trying to figure out just how much of the game should be subjected to a litteral interpretation. Our narrator is inherently unreliable, and the physical viability of the constructs in the game given the timeframe seem... off.

This, exactly. You could even go so far as to interpret Mandus as just an ordinary 19th century industrialist (which was a pretty horrific thing all by itself) whose tortured psyche twisted what he saw himself doing into something not merely inhumane but into something nightmarish and cannibalistic. You could view the whole thing as a metaphor of a mind plagued by guilt. Think Silent Hill, but a little over a hundred years ago and with pigs.

Not necessarily saying that's what I believe to be true, but anything is a possibility given how few objective facts we have, if any. Don't limit yourselves to logical explanations. The truth ain't always logical.

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - jacksepticeye - 09-14-2013

(09-14-2013, 12:00 AM)Tobi Wrote: Some of the notes do seem to indicate that the manpigs are still human, or somewhat human, though that seems to change depending on things since Mandus seemed to favor lobotomizing them. Though this note sounds like it was written by a manpig:
Spoiler below!
What exhumation is this, what rotten fruit, what be-stitching of parts?
I doubt I will ever be found, yet I leave you this, scrawled in
the malodorous half-light, whilst my tormentor shuffles below, my fellow
prisoners keen and squeal in the gloam, and where I wait for the
knocking upon my cage that signifies it is, finally, my turn to make
that dark journey into the interior

They retain a child like mind as far as I can tell, as evidenced by them using blocks and just bumbling about most times. He lobotomizes some to make them docile and easier to work with

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - LarryV - 09-14-2013

Hey everyone.

Integria put forth an interesting theory and it does wokr a bit. The barriers we see all over the game, only certain things being allowed to move, the filter over the game, and towards the final act & the final act where things and you appear and reappear.

I think this is something occuring the mind of our protagonist. Now if this is the path we'll go then we can look at the rest of the game in a different light:
- Nothing we saw happened because it's the delusions of a dying madman.

So maybe, we're seeing a life passing through our prog's life. He's already killed himself (maybe that's why he's returning to the temple, where he killed himself) and durinr his last minutes, he's trying to puzzle everything together, all the crimes he's done and to make amends with himself and his children.

So the filter, is a sort of dream haze, a death haze.

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - jacksepticeye - 09-14-2013

Something I noticed again when playing through is there are a lot of round eye glasses around as well as some false teeth. In one area you open a drawer FULL of them and the protagonist breathes heavily and the screen freaks out

but there's also teeth and glasses beside the bed at the very start where he talks about his wife dying furing child birth. What significance do they have?

(09-14-2013, 12:18 AM)LarryV Wrote: Hey everyone.

Integria put forth an interesting theory and it does wokr a bit. The barriers we see all over the game, only certain things being allowed to move, the filter over the game, and towards the final act & the final act where things and you appear and reappear.

I think this is something occurin the mind of our protagonist. Now if this is the path we'll go then we can look at the rest of the game in a different light:
- Nothing we saw occured but the delusions of a madman and him killing himself is himself releasing himself.

So maybe, we're seeing a life pasting through our prog's life. He's already killed himself (maybe that's why he's returning to the temple, the way where he killed himself) and during his last minutes, he's trying to puzzle everything together, all the crimes his done and to make amends with himself and his children.

So the filter, is a sort of dream haze, a death haze.

I really like this idea. So we can't interact because he never interacted in the first place? All we can do is follow his steps from before?

RE: Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert* - PathOS - 09-14-2013

Was it common for the wealthy of Victorian era London to wear glasses and have false teeth maybe? Big Grin

Mandus could have been keeping those as a sort of trophy. He was a trophy hunter after all too Smile