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+--- Thread: Touchy Subject (/thread-7415.html)
RE: Touchy Subject - Matthias Steel - 04-18-2011
(04-17-2011, 11:43 PM)GraphicsKid Wrote:(04-17-2011, 10:52 PM)nackidno Wrote: I don't understand why homosexuality would be a sin? I'm not really into Christianity and it's texts, rules and so on, so would you please explain why homosexuality is a sin?
Also, homosexuality is nothing that you struggle with in the same sense as swearing or lying, it's just that a lot of people don't accept homosexuality as something just as beautiful as heterosexuality. I'm not homosexual but I know a few who are (also bisexual) and from their experience, they have been told over and over through their lifetime that their sexual preference is "unclean" and "dirty". Really, by that logic any other sexual preference is just as dirty, because they involve the same feelings, the same affection and attraction, they're just into another gender.
I'm not trying to start an argument, I just want to understand why Christianity as a religion is against gay people.
First of all, I want you all to realize I am NOT, against gay PEOPLE, the people themselves. Now I certainly don't condone their lifestyles, but I DO NOT hate these people, I want to help them. These Westboro baptist people you hear about (the ones with the "God hates fags" picket signs)... they're not Christians... they're a cult that's fooled the whole world into thinking "this is what Christians think." A true Christian loves all people, and wants to help all people. Mr. Phelps clearly doesn't have this mentality. If they were true followers of Christ, we wouldn't be seeing this sort of behavior from them.
I don't believe it for one second that gays are gays and that's that. I believe everybody can change for the better. There are tons of ex-gays out there with stories to tell. This self-defeating attitude is what is really disturbing me. Not just with homosexuality, I know so many people who don't try to change because they just assume that they can't.
Now that that's out of the way, why is homosexuality a sin?
First let's nail down what "sin" is. Sin is, put simply, a rejection of God's ways, and rebellion against God. God created both men and women for specific purposes... and if He didn't, then why can't two men or two women have a child together? It just doesn't work. It's considered "unclean" because it's not natural in the sense that it is not what God intended.
Scripture is very clear as well: Leviticus 18: 22; Romans 1: 26-27; 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10; Jude 7 to name a few...
In short, it's a sin because God says so. As much as I'd love to jump aboard SS "everybody is fine, do whatever you want" I know that God doesn't set these rules up to be mean, he just knows what's best.
homosexual people may be able to change there sexual practices but they cannot change who they lust after. the funny thing about the bible is that its only one book, theres books and tablets way older than the bible that tell of similar instances such as a passage that was carved on a stone tablet by the ancient sumerians about 3,000 years before jesus existed. in the passage it talks about a great flood and how a man named Utnapishtim created a boat and saved "the seed of all living things". not saved individual animals but there seed. and on another ancient sumerian tablet (carved into stone not on parchment like the bible) it talks about how the god of the earth Enki who is just one of many gods who came down from the heavens (aka space) called the Annunaki who created the first man named Adamu (coincidence?) who was basically created to be a slave for the gods to mine gold because the atmosphere on the Annunaki's planet called Nibiru (which is clearly stated as being a planet not some place a human can't reach until they die) was basically dwindling because of all the things the annunaki did while they were becoming technologically advanced on there planet. the bible is basically a dumbed down version of sumerian texts for the common street man. and did you know that there was MANY people in jesus's time who claimed to be the messiah and to be god. it's just like people today who claim to have psychic abilities. someone who claims that they can talk to the dead are just insulting my intelligence and thats exactly what jesus did. people in his time were very ignorant and superstitious anyone with even a small understanding of slight of hand and illusionism can claim to be a god and people back then believed people like jesus. theres many people nowadays who live in remote parts of the world for example who claim to be a god and have supernatural abilities and people actually worship them like jesus.
RE: Touchy Subject - eliasfrost - 04-18-2011
(04-17-2011, 11:43 PM)GraphicsKid Wrote: First let's nail down what "sin" is. Sin is, put simply, a rejection of God's ways, and rebellion against God. God created both men and women for specific purposes... and if He didn't, then why can't two men or two women have a child together? It just doesn't work. It's considered "unclean" because it's not natural in the sense that it is not what God intended.
In short, it's a sin because God says so. As much as I'd love to jump aboard SS "everybody is fine, do whatever you want" I know that God doesn't set these rules up to be mean, he just knows what's best.
If that's what God truly believe is best for us, then I believe he is very unreasonable for making gay people to begin with, because they would go to hell no matter what, just because they are what they are.
Quote:I don't believe it for one second that gays are gays and that's that.
Well, they certainly didn't choose to be gay. So God must have created them that way, why would he do that? Since they must "clean themselves", why didn't he send them to earth as "clean" then?
RE: Touchy Subject - Sexbad - 04-18-2011
(04-17-2011, 11:43 PM)GraphicsKid Wrote: I don't believe it for one second that gays are gays and that's that. I believe everybody can change for the better. There are tons of ex-gays out there with stories to tell. This self-defeating attitude is what is really disturbing me. Not just with homosexuality, I know so many people who don't try to change because they just assume that they can't.
I'd like for you to consider the idea that, since sexuality is not a choice, these people are lying. I hid mine from roughly age twelve into late fifteen. I've been out for roughly nine months and have absolutely no intention of changing because it is simply not possible. And if I had the choice, I would, because I am part of the singularly largest disrespected minority on the planet. Anyone who has claimed that he or she has changed sexualities is lying, only suppressing homosexual urges. Unless this person was unawarely bisexual, he still has no heterosexual tendencies and still wants that sexy Latino boy whom he shares two classes with and brushes past at lunchtime.
I would like to believe that my homosex does not make me any worse. My bank-robbing does.
EDIT Part 2: I'd just like to state, however, that I do support any church that moves as far away from the ludicrously evil parts of the Bible. My mom is a choir director and pianist at a congregational church a few towns away from me, and apparently the pastor is gay.
Anyway, let's talk about bigger issues, such as the horrifying idea that everything happens for a reason.
RE: Touchy Subject - Tottel - 04-18-2011
Let's not plunge into 1 subject; that would just turn this thread into a flamewar. Trying to 'convert' the others was not the point of this thread, and if you believe it or not, it has never worked before.
Let's try a bit of an altered topic:
What is your religion, and how does it help you if you are angry/sad/jealous at times in life (if it does help)?
RE: Touchy Subject - gandalf91 - 04-18-2011
I grew up in a Catholic church. Over the past few years I slowly dissented from that into Deism, and since have gone from deism to being agnostic. I really just don't care much to performing ceremonies and rituals to venerate the unknown in some assumed cause that in reality, no one knows much about. I'd rather live life independently trying to have a positive impact on those I love through everyday actions.
(04-17-2011, 11:52 PM)Gharren Wrote:(04-17-2011, 11:43 PM)GraphicsKid Wrote: In short, it's a sin because God says so.
It's a sin because the bible says so. That's a difference.
Indeed.
RE: Touchy Subject - mattwestwick - 04-18-2011
Whatever prepares you for the inevitable.
RE: Touchy Subject - hollowleviathan - 04-18-2011
I was hoping this would stay positive, but I should have known better.
Jesus decreed that the old laws expire, replaced by love of self and others, and works of selflessness and community. The clause in Romans is authored by Paul, an esteemed man of the early church, but not God. Was his hand moved by the Holy Spirit? I can't really believe that, considering he's espousing murder.
I haven't lost my faith as I've grown older, as some do, but I've lost my faith in the absolute divinity of the Bible. The Bible is a holy scripture for whose word I have to bend my understand of things like the definition of Pi (3.0), or a work of manmade scholarly works on the divine events long past? A message of love is there for anyone who wouldn't rather dwell on the urges of fallen man for hate and jealousy.
I can believe that God permitted an imperfect record of his salvation in the same way I can believe God permits evil in the world: without the free choice to be good or evil, we would have no free will at all, we'd literally not exist independent of God, merely vestigial limbs that act on his impulses like a leg would.
I don't think belief in God is surrendering science, or that scientific knowledge of the world should be considered inferior to religion. Learning, gnosis, is the heart of Eastern Orthodox, which interests me more than the suburban Catholicism/protestantism we have around here. The overwhelming science is that teaching and practicing conversion from homosexuality is hurtful, and immoral*.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-gay#Conversion_therapy
RE: Touchy Subject - kailip - 04-19-2011
Homosexuality is a sin, so even dumb animals will go to hell? lol
"oh my god"... people are so dumb... Someone wondered how many other species in the universe are struggling with this same concept... I wonder how many really put an end to it, proving to others that god doesn't exist...
RE: Touchy Subject - DominusVita - 04-19-2011
"I was hoping this would stay positive, but I should have known better."
Many forums like BSN, the one I primary visit, outright lock anything sociopolitical or religious in topic because they have a tendency to derail.
Regarding the altered topic, how does it make me angry/sad? It's certainly not the cheeriest outlook to what lies after my body will fall, but it is my belief - no more or less valid, good, or evil than the next. I refuse to spend my life thinking about dying, I should think about living instead.
RE: Touchy Subject - Bek - 04-19-2011
(04-17-2011, 11:43 PM)GraphicsKid Wrote: I want to help them.
That sickens me.
To be honest everyone should look at Wikipedias list of arguments for and against the existence of a god, it's quite extensive, and some of the points it has have already been brought up in this thread.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Argument_against_the_existence_of_God#Arguments_against_the_existence_of_God
I challenge everyone to read through both sides of the arguments.
In regard to sinning and free will, I've found a rage comic that seems to portray some interesting thoughts on the topic:
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/ygaft.png/