Frictional Games Forum (read-only)
Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Printable Version

+- Frictional Games Forum (read-only) (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum)
+-- Forum: SOMA (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/forum-55.html)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/forum-56.html)
+--- Thread: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta (/thread-30808.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Streetboat - 09-28-2015

You need to get over yourself, OP. That's pretty much all this is.

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Sirandar - 09-28-2015

(09-24-2015, 09:55 PM)Noisecode Wrote:
(09-24-2015, 09:33 PM)Macgyverthehero Wrote: I actually just had to go through this dilemma in the game, it was so dramatic that I actually made a highlight of it. So here's what I did yesterday when I was streaming SOMA:

http://www.twitch.tv/macgyverthehero/v/17472639

It was definitely a sucky choice to have to make, for sure....and i chose the same as you. We kept playing the game though. because it's a game

But the original poster is behaving as though Frictional games forced him to commit murder and that he is owed a game with branching plot lines and alternate choices.

(09-28-2015, 09:29 PM)Streetboat Wrote: You need to get over yourself, OP. That's pretty much all this is.

And if I got over myself .... who would I be? You?

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Noisecode - 09-28-2015

(09-28-2015, 10:23 PM)Sirandar Wrote:
(09-24-2015, 09:55 PM)Noisecode Wrote:
(09-24-2015, 09:33 PM)Macgyverthehero Wrote: I actually just had to go through this dilemma in the game, it was so dramatic that I actually made a highlight of it. So here's what I did yesterday when I was streaming SOMA:

http://www.twitch.tv/macgyverthehero/v/17472639

It was definitely a sucky choice to have to make, for sure....and i chose the same as you. We kept playing the game though. because it's a game

But the original poster is behaving as though Frictional games forced him to commit murder and that he is owed a game with branching plot lines and alternate choices.

(09-28-2015, 09:29 PM)Streetboat Wrote: You need to get over yourself, OP. That's pretty much all this is.

And if I got over myself .... who would I be? You?

Absolutely not....but you would come off as a little bit less whiny and self entitled.

You are upset because the game does not have branching paths. Coming here and declaring that you will not purchase anymore frictional products is going to have Zeeeeeeeeeeeero effect on.......anything.

Frictional will still make games.... i will still buy them.......

but thanks for telling me / us why you don't like them....I guess..........we might have needed to know that.........probably.......sort of..........

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Omnitool - 09-28-2015

(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: From the OP

Thanks for all the comments .... all are interesting.

It does indeed look like I am trying to blackmail the devs into changing the game to suit my moral code ..... but actually, as you can probably guess I have been in this position a few times, and I know that they will not.

I was simply informing them of the consequences of their decision to force me into a dichotomous choice with not enough purpose behind it. It is all to get a stupid chip when the chip you already have is magically broken. The chip could be any object and the game doesn't change much at all if the dev magically placed a chip front of me to find, instead of stunning the robot.

It is already a done deal ... not playing this game, not playing any future games from Frictional unless they openly state that will craft better decision points in the game. There is no blackmail.

Dragon Age Origins had a similar issue to Soma and I never finished that game or bought any sequel. The issue was forcing me to drink the DarkSpawn blood and it was a major decision that should have had a lot of thought put into it by the devs.

For Dragon Age, forcing me to drink the darkspawn blood would be ok but what was needed was to give me the chance to actually choose in a satisfying way.

Choice 1 = drink the dragon blood
Choice 2 = State that Duncan is as vile as the Darkspawn he fights and attempt to hack my way out of the situation
Choice 3 = Recognize that you are outclassed, pull out your sword and end your life on it.

This was a major moment in the game wasted as the devs did it.

How could killing yourself or dying fighting Duncan be worked into the game? A simple cut scene where Duncan immobilizes you before you could do either and forces you to drink the blood saying " You are too valuable an asset to loose"

This way everybody wins and the story further moves and the player is given insight into how ruthless and desperate the Wardens really are. They did just murder your friend ....

When you force somebody to make an ugly choice it is a GIANT RED FLAG, meaning if you are going to do it, you better think about it and do it ABSOLUTELY right and in a compelling way. Think about it three times.

The robot stun choice was not constructed in a compelling way, and so it made me feel the devs were forcing me to do something unpleasant just because they could. Not very good fro making repeat customers.
(09-25-2015, 12:01 PM)brus Wrote: I, on the other hand, would like to use stun baton on every creature, if enough charge.

I wholeheartedly support your freedom to kill every creature in gaming down to the last little bunny in Witcher 3. Why do you have so much trouble understanding my desire not to?
(09-25-2015, 05:14 AM)EnDash Wrote:
Spoiler below!

(09-25-2015, 04:32 AM)Sirandar Wrote: A closing note from the OP to the devs which of course they are free to ignore

Soma had a lot of great aspects. It was intriguing, thought provoking and relatively non-violent. It had great atmosphere, feel and good flow. It was beautiful to look at too and provided information to the player in very compelling and novel ways.

In a sense, Frictional may be one of the few devs that could make a game I would finish and enjoy and feel it was an enriching empowering experience. You probably cant even if you wanted to in the current gaming climate.

That said, Soma has a lot of company on my "I won't finish the game list" and since there is some possibility that you could make a game worth playing I will describe my experiences with games so you can assess my market niche.

1) Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim = didn't finish but not due to moral outrage ... the quests were too bland and pointless to be worth my time. Same is true for most sandboxes. Some of Skyrims quests were OK, but you can imagine how much I likes the 1/2 done civil war.

2) Batman Arkham Asylum: Violent and fairly abusive to the player but there was a certain craftmanship to that countered that = Finished twice

3) All the other Batman and superhero games: Interesting sandboxes, annoying abusive games = didn't finish once

4) Prince of Persia Sand of Time: Mindless Storytelling but fun Finished 2x. All other Prince of Persia games = highly abusive

5) Myst Revelation: Played 8x over the years Still one of the best games ever made despite being linearish. Myst End of Ages: A crap 1/4 done game = still finished but only because it was 1/4 done.

6) Fallout New Vegas: The ultimate in mixed content. Guns, Violence, stupid, silly, buggy but somehow the game just worked and delivered a game I played 3 times

7) Deus Ex HR: Another highly conflicted game. The boss battles were highly abusive with a pacifist build and written by another dev. Eventually fixed after nobody cared anymore. Jensens story and the atmosphere prevailed = finished twice

8) NeverWinter Nights Series: MotB was a 1/2 finished masterpiece but only played once because I couldn't bring down the wall. Hordes of the Underdark was also great and I finished that twice. These games can be abusive if you build your character wrong.

9) Planescape Torment: Masterpiece in its time. Played 3x. Some choices were forced but they were well constructed

10) Dragon Age Origins: Played up to the part where you were forced to drink the darkspawn blood. The forced choice was understandable, but how they framed the choice and how my character responded was not == ended playing after that abuse. Never played a DA game again.

11) Mass Effect = Violent but not particularly abusive in my playthroughs. Some forced choices but they didn't cause me to quit. ME1 was a masterpiece. ME2 was a great game but I hated being the Elusive Man's bitch. ME3 had some fairly abusive battles, but it was still playable.

12) Crysis: Didn't have a PC good enough for the original. The second one I played and it was fun but no enough to buy sequels.

13) Assassins Creed: Played the first one and it bored me to tears and it is about assassinations. Never finished never bought another.

14) Portal: Bland subversive fun = finished both

15)Longest Journey and Dreamfall: Fully played and loved both. Dreamfall Chapters started will but descended into an unplayable mess in chapter 3

16) Vanishing of Ethan Carter: Played 3x and loved it. Yes its linear but no forced choices either.

17) Antichamber: Played 2x and loved it

18) Don't Starve: Seems innocuous but extremely abusive

19) Witcher Series: 1) Interesting enough to finish once due to atmosphere and story 2) Couldn't even make it 1/4 though, monster hunting sucked, too much politics, too many annoyances 3) Loved and hated it: player is forced to act a Geralt would so the freedom of action is actually very limited. A lot of poorly crafted forced choices. Monster hunting is fairly compelling. Some quests are very compelling. Geralt is very unempowered in this game with few satisfying choices to be made and lots of abusive ones. Every wolf and dog in the game attacks on sight. Every bandit and deserter is a homicidal maniac. Stopped playing this game in hopes modders can fix it ... unlikely though.

Before you scream about moral inconsistencies .... thats how life is and moral landscapes change over time


O_O

have you tried yoga?

Lol, actually I have and yoga is a major part of my life. For me gaming is about expanding my awareness and experiencing the human condition. There hasn't been much worth playing recently. There has been a huge push toward enslavement in the gaming industry, especially in pay to play games.

When you come home, and your wife is banging some dude and you murder them both, there is a very high level of coercion to the situation. Because we need to eat and compete, there is a very high level of coercion to many human situations. If you add conditioning on top of that you get a potent mixture.

When you play a computer game, you are an absolute volunteer (unless your addiction level is high), so in some manner it is a portrait of your truest nature. Action without consequence.

Actually there IS a way to get the chip without killing any robot!

Method 1 (harder but fun):
1. Open your Soma folder, where you installed the game (something like C:/Program Files/Soma)
2. Launch the LevelEditor.exe application.
3. Inside the application, open the maps/Episode3 folder. Load the map where you need the chip (something like Delta_Exterior), try all maps until you find it.
4. Spawn a Tool Chip on the map, close to the terminal you need it for (be sure to put it in a place easy to find)
5. Save and close editor. Launch game. Enjoy!

Method 2 (easy):

1. Search the forums and the internet for a game save past the location where you are stuck in the game (a saved checkpoint like Theta). Download the save file.
2. Copy the downloaded file into your game folder.
3. Launch game and load the checkpoimt after you got stuck.

Hope this helped Smile

Seriously, this is like the greatest game ever! Don't let the fact that you got stuck in this area ruin your entire gaming experience!

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - hollowleviathan - 09-29-2015

(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: Dragon Age Origins had a similar issue to Soma and I never finished that game or bought any sequel. The issue was forcing me to drink the DarkSpawn blood and it was a major decision that should have had a lot of thought put into it by the devs.

For Dragon Age, forcing me to drink the darkspawn blood would be ok but what was needed was to give me the chance to actually choose in a satisfying way.

Choice 1 = drink the dragon blood
Choice 2 = State that Duncan is as vile as the Darkspawn he fights and attempt to hack my way out of the situation
Choice 3 = Recognize that you are outclassed, pull out your sword and end your life on it.

This was a major moment in the game wasted as the devs did it.

I also resented not being given a choice, but do you know who I resented? Duncan, not Bioware. He's the jerk forcing you to drink, just as all recruits have been forced beforehand. I resented him and the entire Grey Wardens. I saved the city/continent from the Darkspawn because the public didn't know or approve of this hideous ritual, however.

Just the same as the people on the ARK are worth my morals being compromised.

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - eddman - 09-29-2015

(09-29-2015, 07:26 PM)hollowleviathan Wrote:
(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: Dragon Age Origins had a similar issue to Soma and I never finished that game or bought any sequel. The issue was forcing me to drink the DarkSpawn blood and it was a major decision that should have had a lot of thought put into it by the devs.

For Dragon Age, forcing me to drink the darkspawn blood would be ok but what was needed was to give me the chance to actually choose in a satisfying way.

Choice 1 = drink the dragon blood
Choice 2 = State that Duncan is as vile as the Darkspawn he fights and attempt to hack my way out of the situation
Choice 3 = Recognize that you are outclassed, pull out your sword and end your life on it.

This was a major moment in the game wasted as the devs did it.

I also resented not being given a choice, but do you know who I resented? Duncan, not Bioware. He's the jerk forcing you to drink, just as all recruits have been forced beforehand. I resented him and the entire Grey Wardens. I saved the city/continent from the Darkspawn because the public didn't know or approve of this hideous ritual, however.

Just the same as the people on the ARK are worth my morals being compromised.

I really disliked that decision in dragon age too. The grey wardens' joining ritual was the most evil piece of crap I'd experienced in a game:

"You must drink this. There is a chance it might kill you, but if you don't drink, then I'll definitely kill you. Yeah, I didn't tell you that when I recruited you, but so what, it's done boy. Sucks to be you."

Just piss off bioware with your junk.

Later on I stopped playing it about, I think, 30-40% of the way, but there were other reasons for that, such as terrible graphics, unlikable characters, bad dialogs, utterly uninteresting plot, etc. The reviews fooled me.

Still, I didn't go to their forums, demanding for an alternative to be introduced in the game or I won't buy their games. That's just childish. It's their game and their story to tell.

I simply don't buy their games, mostly because I find them terribly overrated and boring.

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Sirandar - 10-01-2015

[/quote]
I also resented not being given a choice, but do you know who I resented? Duncan, not Bioware. He's the jerk forcing you to drink, just as all recruits have been forced beforehand. I resented him and the entire Grey Wardens. I saved the city/continent from the Darkspawn because the public didn't know or approve of this hideous ritual, however.

Just the same as the people on the ARK are worth my morals being compromised.
[/quote]

I do see your point exactly and frankly it is the most valid argument for giving license to forced choices. The end justifies the means.

Actually, during my partial playthrough of DAO I hated both Bioware and Duncan in equal measure, which is an achievement of sorts. Choice 2 in my list consists of dying in a hopeless attempt to kill Duncan.

But it is all a question of how the forced choice is done and how it fits into the big picture of the game.

For Soma, in Delta at the stun robot choice, in Simon's frame of reference, the Ark is still pretty abstract and he doesn't even know if it still holds "life" and what kind of beings are on board. It is extremely abstract. Frictional could have made this choice must more viable if "The Ark" was much more concrete in Simons mind at this point and he knew that he felt those aboard they were worth saving. As it is Simons decision is pretty much a leap of faith, and perhaps this is what the devs were crafting ..... Will you kill for faith? In this scenario I would not, so I am completely blocked from finishing the game.

But really this is a matter of faith, not in God but Frictional as a developer. I see their mastery and potential as a developer, otherwise why would I bother posting here. But I felt manipulated in Soma, not by the story or the situation, but by Frictional itself. I brings me absolutely out of the game when this happens. It is something devs should strive to avoid.

Here is an example of a frustrating, painful coercive decision in gaming that was a work of art. It was the decision whether or not to turn against Mr House in New Vegas when he showed signs of megalomania. I chose to turn against him, but it was a very difficult decision and I though a lot about it before choosing. Even now I still remember it vividly. It was a compelling decision, because once I saw it I could suddenly see how he I had been manipulated by House and how I was deluding myself about his character, despite having a huge affinity for it at the same time. Even then when I questioned his plans to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel he had the perfect answer "What do you think they do with all those advanced weapons they collect, build schoolhouses?". He was Mr House to the very end and even as I pulled the plug I could see how and why he was as he is, and how the entire game flowed towards this decision. There was thought put into this ...

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - EnDash - 10-01-2015

(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: Lol, actually I have and yoga is a major part of my life. For me gaming is about expanding my awareness and experiencing the human condition. There hasn't been much worth playing recently. There has been a huge push toward enslavement in the gaming industry, especially in pay to play games.

i think you don't understand what enslavement means. being a slave means to be owned by someone else, and forced to do what he commands. no one is forcing you to play the game, no one is forcing you to buy the game, no one is forcing you to do anything. slaves dream of such freedom.

(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: When you come home, and your wife is banging some dude and you murder them both,

i... what?

(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: there is a very high level of coercion to the situation. Because we need to eat and compete, there is a very high level of coercion to many human situations. If you add conditioning on top of that you get a potent mixture.

actually there is a very low level of coercion, because the thing that "forces" you to do things in the situations you talk about are your human ego and pride. you can instead of murdering two people choose to leave them behind and go find more trustworthy people to be with. you were not "forced" to murder because "we need to eat and compete". you choose to murder because you felt ashamed.

(and by god i hope that situation was hypothetical with you)

(09-28-2015, 08:28 PM)Sirandar Wrote: When you play a computer game, you are an absolute volunteer (unless your addiction level is high), so in some manner it is a portrait of your truest nature. Action without consequence.

interesting. can a volunteer be considered a slave? i think they are both mutually exclusive. if as you say "when you play a computer game, you are an absolute volunteer" then you can't by your definition be a slave.

and that last part is in my opinion very true. which is why i like this game and i imagine why you hate it so. i learned something about myself when i killed the robot, you did also when you choose not to kill anyone. that part of the game wasn't an enslavement, it was a learning experience.

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - ArioDargeto - 10-01-2015

OP is simply seeking attention. I strongly suspect he/she does not even own the game and, if they do, they are still playing it. They simply wish to provoke a response from the community by making a rediculous and inaccurate argument.

RE: Issue: I simply refuse to use the stun gun on any robot in Delta - Noisecode - 10-01-2015

(10-01-2015, 10:32 PM)ArioDargeto Wrote: OP is simply seeking attention. I strongly suspect he/she does not even own the game and, if they do, they are still playing it. They simply wish to provoke a response from the community by making a rediculous and inaccurate argument.

This.....hence the reason I stopped engaging him directly.