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+--- Thread: Disappointed with AAMFP (/thread-22831.html)
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - ZyLogicX - 09-12-2013
I believe people are tending to forget the fact that The Chinese Room developed AAMFP. Knowing TCR's background (Dear Esther), a game that revolted around telling a very serious and saddening story-- at the cost of ithe gameplay being somewhat passive, was bound to happen (and was infact stated by both companies on several occassions). Is this wrong? In terms of what we're used to when playing Amnesia: yes. However, people have to remember that AMFP was initially planned to be an 'experimental' game.
I don't want to be blunt, but it seems like the majority of the audience claims, or perhaps wants to, that a horror-game has to make you scared à la Slender. However, what makes a horror-game is the setting, atmosphere and, most importantly, the story.
Although alot of Frictional Games' products revolt heavily around H.P. Lovecraft (hence they named their engine HPL), his stories do not directly scare you. It's about the terror of what 'decent' or perhaps 'fair' humans can do to eachother when their deepest emotions are affected.
That is what makes a horror-game; which AMFP succeeded vastly in.
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Cuyir - 09-12-2013
@ZyLogicX:
I wouldn't say that ALL of the people who didn't like AMFP expected that but a healthy chunk of them just wanted a shallow scarefest, like TDD.
@Khelim: Daniel was a horrible character too. He's a weak willed coward who's submissive to a tee. And I don't want to act like a bad ass but it was annoying how often he would faint.
"Oh I HEARD something scurry, let me faint.''
Really annoyed me.
At least Philip was more likeable, albeit silly. I mean, who the hell goes to GREENLAND just because one's DEAD father sent him a letter?
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - LordOfDragons - 09-12-2013
(09-11-2013, 09:25 PM)Tiger Wrote: About the monsters, In A:TDD the monsters were really predictable; All you'd do was
1. Pick up key
2. Oh, monster
3. Wardrobe
I'm not saying that's bad, but it could have used some variation. In AMFP you use your surroundings, like for example the cages and under tables.
(09-11-2013, 08:40 PM)Gyldenglad Wrote: Monsters
I mean the monsters aren't even that scary, and at no point you actually have to face them more than you could just walk around them and leave them to their own business, it is like they are not even interested in finding you.
I kind of agree with this, but at the same time, those pigs are children; They're as scared as you. Then of course, you meet the "brute"-pig and that scary fucking electronic-pig which have only one goal: To kill.
The pig monsters mostly are men and no children. In the later scene where they are in the cages, there may be a children like piggy (The one who plays with the cube)
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Khelim - 09-12-2013
(09-12-2013, 10:06 PM)Nuits Grace Wrote: @ZyLogicX:
I wouldn't say that ALL of the people who didn't like AMFP expected that but a healthy chunk of them just wanted a shallow scarefest, like TDD.
@Khelim: Daniel was a horrible character too. He's a weak willed coward who's submissive to a tee. And I don't want to act like a bad ass but it was annoying how often he would faint.
"Oh I HEARD something scurry, let me faint.''
Really annoyed me.
At least Philip was more likeable, albeit silly. I mean, who the hell goes to GREENLAND just because one's DEAD father sent him a letter?
- Instead we got shallow story with passive storytelling. TDD left memories of being terrified, AMFP left nothing, bitter feeling of time and money wasted. Also slender is shallow scarefest, TDD has vibe of fear neatly crafted with protag's amnesia, ambient noises, sanity, gruesome facts revealed from notes, supernatural powers chasing you. You have goal to descend deeper to reveal the truth and kill Alexander. Slender has quite simple goal to collect 8 notes. AMFP doesn't even have goal. Save children which are obviously dead already? Repair machine to destroy it again?
- Horrible person? Maybe. But as character he was easy to bond with. Running for his life, trying to save himself by all means (I guess it's egoist in me feeling this bond). Oswald on other hand just went nuts after wife's death. Yes, people die, move along, man, at least you and your kids are alive! Nooo, you have to kill your kin and try to destroy world. Spending huge amounts of money to create this machine yet blaming rich people that they ignore existence of poor. Wouldn't it be wiser to make orphanage, hostel for homeless, buy out whores out of bordelos with your money...
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Cuyir - 09-13-2013
@Khelim
''One of the things I was most disappointed with in Amnesia was that it never really managed to deliver any deeper themes, but was more like a shallow fright-fest.''
Thomas and I seem to agree.
And the storytelling in TDD wasn't passive? All one did in TDD was walk down hallways, hide from monsters and do puzzles. The levels were slightly less linear but still linear (ie you could technically go to an area before the other but oftentimes you'd have to backtrack to find the items that were in the other rooms). That's still linear design. And besides, why do people care so much about it being linear? Some of the best games i've played have been linear. It's all about how a developer uses it and TCR used it well. And how did TCR use that linearity? To tell a cohesive and well written story and to show off their level design skills. TDD's levels were boring. You really can't do much with a setting such as a castle but I found it lacking. While in AMFP the level design is such a treat to behold.
I barely remember any setpieces from TDD besides the water chase sequence and the ending. That's it. The game was such a hit in youtube and such because people tended to play it as a haunted attraction and ignored the meh writing. It seemed like such a lost opportunity to me, especially after playing through the Penumbra series years before. I came into the game being so excited and by the time the credits rolled I was a little disappointed. I know FG can write a good story, they did so with the Penumbra series so hopefully their secret project delivers. So far it looks like they're on the right road.
And so far the writing in AMFP has been, with all due respect to FG, incredibly better than FG's attempts in TDD. FG's usual Lovecraft tribute-y writing started well and then it fell flat and turned dreadfully boring and uninteresting. TCR are skilled at storytelling and it's pretty obvious to me.
While TDD focused almost purely on scares and atmosphere, AMFP focused on storytelling and a more cerebral fear, a less jump scare-y fear. And don't get me started on the useless sanity system, i've already talked enough about it.
The story in AMFP isn't a ''who-dunnit'' or the usual, it's deeper than that but that'd require actually immersing one's self into the game and paying attention.
And Daniel?
Easy to bond with?
He was a coward that was afraid of his own shadow. At least Mandus was screwed up by his wife's death and that trip to Mexico. Not only is Mandus a better written character but he's also a more interesting one. There wasn't a single character worth writing about in TDD (besides Justine but that's just my bias towards me liking female characters). He actually had beliefs, passion and the intelligence to do what he thought was right...regardless of how insane and wrong placed those three characteristics were.
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Alardem - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 02:04 AM)Nuits Grace Wrote: He was a coward that was afraid of his own shadow. At least Mandus was screwed up by his wife's death and that trip to Mexico. Not only is Mandus a better written character but he's also a more interesting one. There wasn't a single character worth writing about in TDD (besides Justine but that's just my bias towards me liking female characters). He actually had beliefs, passion and the intelligence to do what he thought was right...regardless of how insane and wrong placed those three characteristics were.
I have to concur regarding Justine - a consequence of her game's compressed scale was that the scale of her evil felt more plausible (torturing six men as opposed to hundreds), and there was an air of mystery to her that made her more chilling than Alexander (a love-lorn alien). And there was more to her than meets the eye, with hints that she possesses a madness-inducing artifact and that, depending on the player's actions, she can be genuinely compassionate when deprived of her 'regular' state of mind.
I'm pleased that A Machine For Pigs continued the themes and ideas raised by Justine. I just wonder if she ever suffered or redeemed herself for her actions, as Mandus and Daniel sought to...
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Kreekakon - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 02:20 AM)Alardem Wrote: I'm pleased that A Machine For Pigs continued the themes and ideas raised by Justine. I just wonder if she ever suffered or redeemed herself for her actions, as Mandus and Daniel sought to...
The only way I can ever see that happening is if when she put amnesia on herself she forgets to properly remove it lol
Otherwise as she's currently is she seems like a pretty lost cause to be completely honest.
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Alardem - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 02:24 AM)Kreekakon Wrote:(09-13-2013, 02:20 AM)Alardem Wrote: I'm pleased that A Machine For Pigs continued the themes and ideas raised by Justine. I just wonder if she ever suffered or redeemed herself for her actions, as Mandus and Daniel sought to...
The only way I can ever see that happening is if when she put amnesia on herself she forgets to properly remove it lol
Otherwise as she's currently is she seems like a pretty lost cause to be completely honest.
Mandus has done things on a vaster and arguably more horrific magnitude - yet he managed to literally split his soul in order to return to his senses. I bet something as simple as removing her 'Soapstone' could let her humanity resurface. Being forgiven by her suitors and pursuers is a different matter: there is no paranormal monster or man-eating machine to blame and stop, only the consequences of her own cruelty. The best case scenario for her would be getting locked up for the rest of her life.
It's possible she ran out of time shortly after her 'game'. The authorities were already onto her by the time we play as her, and back-up may arrive once they start being missed. One can also infer that the 'guests' she planned on meeting for dinner at the end are also to be kidnapped. Or maybe they're part of an aristocratic group through which she and Mandus become aware of paranormal artifacts.
Then again, Ozzy managed to regularly abduct his rich guests for quite some time and promptly killed or captured the professor who came to investigate. If he did 'well' for himself, so can she. Her fate, like Daniel's, is a mystery, and all the better for it.
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Xenomorph - 09-13-2013
I thought the main problems had to do with the locations and lack of monsters. In dark decent you start at the top of a castle and make your way deeper and darker into the castle. As you do so the areas become more and more scary and complex (IE: Prison area)
Machine just had lots of steam room like areas and wandering pig AI. The trailer is extremely deceptive because there are few if no areas where a giant pig brute breaks open a door looking for you. I almost felt pity for the pig at the beginning. The few times I hid it just went right past me without any sort of searching. There was an extreme lack of inventory system which just meant that you had to hold onto key items (that never really "popped") and bring them to the correct area. I was never scared at these points, because I knew the game would never threaten you if you had to carry crap to one end to another.
The atmosphere was great and I did get scared a few times. But compared to Penumbra and Decent it doesn't even touch the fear levels or awesome locations. It feels like Machine is a prequel in quality to decent. Consolidating the sanity meter, lantern energy, and puzzle systems for a streamlined story with added horror elements.
Playing Outlast before this really made me feel like this game was a lot less threatening and spooky. It was also WAY SHORT. For having to wait essentially a year after the delay, there sure is an extreme lack of content.
Also during the "water level boss 2.0" if you die more than twice it puts you into a random area spawn that bypasses that scene completely. I wanted to actually figure it out, not just be given it after the third death.
RE: Amnesia: AMFP is underwhelming (minor spoilers) - Pig - 09-13-2013
There was way to much hype behind this game. There shouldn't have been a word said about this game before they could give a real release date because now everyone expects so much out of something that never had the chance to be what people wanted it to be in the first place.
Everyone wanted another Dark Descent. What you got was A Machine For Pigs. A game with a rich story, thick atmosphere and deformed pig creatures. It did what TDD really didn't do well and didn't attempt to one up what TDD did get right which was being scary as hell. Honestly, after TDD I really doubt I will be as scared as I was while playing it because it set the bar pretty high. In order for me to feel that way again, the game needs to reach that bar and then go a little further and I doubt that will come from an Amnesia title.
Machine is not about throwing random objects for the hell of it or solving puzzles that were never hard to begin with, even in TDD. It's about the story and the atmosphere, and if you don't see that, you need to stop playing and wait for the time to come when you'll be able to appreciate it. Yes, I disagree with the removing of the sanity aspect, or that they took out some parts from the trailer, but that really doesn't affect my overall experience with AMFP, and the experience I had was great. A Machine For Pigs left me pretty excited for the next original Frictional Games title.