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Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - craven7 - 09-24-2012
Hi, I'm currently working on a CS and I'm experiencing some design / gameplay problems concerning the freedom given to the player.
Imagine an open area, for example a corridor with several rooms and intersections with other corridors. Now you want the player to move in a specific direction or into a specific room. Of course not because of the reason that your script won't work otherwise or he will be stuck because he is missing a key or something like that, but because of the story *forcing* you to do so.
Now you can't simply lock every door because it destroys the integrity and the realism of the environment and even if you did you'd still have your open corridor intersections.
How would you proceed to force the player in the right place?
An example:
You wake up in your bedroom because you have to use the bathroom. You know the exact way to the bathroom, and you don't experience anything unusual. So obviously you would have no reason to wander around in the whole house, exploring rooms and searching through drawers and whatever.
But what if the player decides to look around? It would destroy the whole idea of the need to use the bathroom in the night and it would also kinda bug the later gameplay, where you WANT the player to look around, but know he already knows the location because of his nightly exploring session instead of his nightly bathroom session.
How can you prevent him from acting like that?
- Maybe a advice/hint in the beginning of the CS which tells that you should act like you would in real life?
- Block boxes (meh)?
- Textmessages appearing when walking in the wrong direction? (Like "I have no reason to go this way, the bathroom is the other way")
- Forcing the player away from the wrong paths with camera movement and/or slowing down the movement speed?
- Any other ideas?
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - Kreekakon - 09-24-2012
If I was presented something like this in development, I would go most with a closed door, and text messages that tell you where to go when its interacted with.
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 09-24-2012
I'd use more or less subtle environment clues to tell the player where he needs to go whenever possible instead of forcing him via blocking volumes etc. If he wants to immerse himself, he'll follow the clues. If he doesn't go where his "quest" needs him to go, he's either roleplaying around (which is perfect for immersion) or not immersing himself at all and in both cases there's no need to force him to do anything.
Take Deus Ex: Human Revolution for example. When you have a mission to do in the city, there's always the possibility to just walk around and explore instead. Of course this is somewhat out of character for the protagonist but its still a lot more immersing than purely linear gameplay as the player can just make up his own reasons for why the protagonist is acting tht way. ("He was JUST about to start the mission when suddenly he noticed a very suspicious looking dumpster and had to investigate that first!")
Besides, they solved the issue quite elegantly by having your boss yell at you over the phone after a while and telling you to get going with your mission already
So what you need to do imo is make the environment readable for the player without shoving too much text, notes or whatever into his face. For example, he leaves the bedroom (which has only one exit) and now looks into the corridor. One of the doors he sees leads to the bathroom. There are several ways you can make that door the most interesting one (just some ideas - you don't need to use them all):
1. Its easy to see when looking out of the bedroom door (>>not behind a corner or anything)
2. Its the only door thats opened a bit (not that the others are locked - just closed)
3. There's light coming out of it (maybe he forgot to switch the light off?) or it is the only door directly lit by moonlight coming from a window.
4. Theres something moving next to it (a curtain for example) - movement in an otherwise still environment always attracts attention.
5. Theres an obvious bathroom sign on the door (duh...)
6. The camera subtly moves towards the right door upon exiting the bedroom - but is free again after that moment!
I'd also advise you to try and analyse the level design of other good games while you play them. (doesn't need to be horror) In good games you'll often find that you somehow always know where you need to go - even without a questmarker or anything else that's not part of the game world. The best example I can think of right now is Journey, but you can find that sort of subtle player guidance in all good games.
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - WALP - 09-24-2012
The problem with your design is that for some reason you want the player to know where the bathroom is, but not where everything else is, which is pretty odd, especially if the character the player takes role of, lives in the house.
You can never force the player, only suggest, and when you restrict him, make it logical. You want the player to rush to the bathroom in the middle of night, but you forget that player and main character is 2 different things, the player is a guy playing amnesia and hes used to exploring the unknown, while the main character is a man who has an urge to go to the toilet(which you cant give the player)and he has seen the house many times so he would not care to go look around, especially not in the middle of the night, The man is tired and just want to hurry and get it over so he can get back to bed while the player is excited to look around and wants to proceed. this is the flaw of your story.
now what can you do about this?:
1. change your story so it becomes more logical if possible
2. Use a cut scene, cut scenes are the only times you can get the player to do something spontane/specifik while they have other options.
3.why would going to the toilet in the middle of the night be important to the story? Im guessing there would be some sort of thing in the bathroom, you could have the player wake up hearing a sound or something which would then have the player looking for the bathroom(now that I think about it this dosent really solve the problem, but oh well)
4.if the player leaves a certain area have them die with the dead message "you wet your pants".
also i would like to comment your own suggestions:
1. tellin the player to act how she/he would in real life dosent change anything, since she/he will be acting from her own viewpoint and not the character's, in other words its not realistick to go to the toilet when you dont need to pee, and you rather want to explore.
2.adding a corridor and a block box is really just a way of trolling the player, since a corridor hints that the player should go there and then not allowing them to do what you unconsciously told them that they should.
3.Yes i know i said that the player and the character are 2 different things, but from the players view point its the same. Now having the players want to do something and then being told by themselfes that what they are doing is wrong, is odd, but most importantly it pulls the player and the character far appart therefore ruining the immersion.
4. I dont think its necesary to repeat myself.
Final words:
when you design your story, you must accept that the player has free will, since its necessary to make the player feel immersed. in the original amnesia campaign there was nothing that prevented you from things like, fx this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=745LhHN4WBI which would actually kind of ruin the experience, but frictional games trusted the players to take the game seriously, instead of wasting time forcing players who wanted to play differently to play it their way.
If you really want to control whats going on, want things to happen with the right timing and everything, i suggest making a movie's instead.
ps wrote much so no, i did not check my grammar
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - craven7 - 09-27-2012
Thanks for your replies.
Quote:4 .if the player leaves a certain area have them die with the dead message "you wet your pants".
Quote: fx this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=745LhHN4WBI which would actually kind of ruin the experienceImho that's something completely different, as he isn't taking the game seriously at all.
Quote: If you really want to control whats going on, want things to happen with
the right timing and everything, i suggest making a movie's instead.
Quote: 1. Its easy to see when looking out of the bedroom door (>>not behind a corner or anything)These are some good tips, thanks.
2. Its the only door thats opened a bit (not that the others are locked - just closed)
3. There's light coming out of it (maybe he forgot to switch the light
off?) or it is the only door directly lit by moonlight coming from a
window.
4. Theres something moving next to it (a curtain for example) - movement
in an otherwise still environment always attracts attention.
5. Theres an obvious bathroom sign on the door (duh...)
6. The camera subtly moves towards the right door upon exiting the bedroom - but is free again after that moment!
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - CarnivorousJelly - 01-10-2013
Oh Oh I think I know! So, remember at the beginning of Amnesia when Daniel was stumbling around the castle? They used a script to teleport him around to different start positions and used "black-outs" in between to make it look natural. The original script should be 00_rainy_hall.hps on lines 86 and on.
That would work if you wanted the player to have minimal control over the character, but I like Hirnwirbel's and the "you wet your pants" ones the best
Edit: Code looked like I barfed it up, so I just redirected to the file
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - MyRedNeptune - 01-10-2013
(09-24-2012, 02:56 PM)Hirnwirbel Wrote: .... roleplaying around (which is perfect for immersion)
You sure about that one?
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - FlawlessHappiness - 01-10-2013
How about keeping most of the house unlit. Except (for example) at the bathroom.
The player will most likely go for the light first, except if there is a door close by.
It's like the player is attracted to it.
Maybe i could make it like:
1. Items.
2. Doors/Drawers/Closets
3. Light
4. Places you can light up
5. Darkness
Nobody would ever run straight into darkness unless:
-There's nothing else to do.
-You know you're supposed to.
(Of course there will be, but then you're not playing the game)
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 01-10-2013
From the dark depths of death I summon thee, thread! Rise! Riiiise and live agaiiin!!
![[Image: 0.jpg]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4OCcT7iJUrA/0.jpg)
Sorry I couldn't resist.
RE: Some help concerning level design (nontechnical) - FlawlessHappiness - 01-10-2013
Lol didn't see that. Thought it was a new thread here..