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+--- Thread: Multiplayer/Co-Op & Frictional Games? NO!!! (/thread-20831.html)
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 07-04-2012
Quote: But that's the point, if you get tired of them you could sacrifice them, without getting game over.Well I probably would have taken kinder to "Ico" if that had been an option...![[Image: biggrin.gif]](http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
(just kidding folks, Ico is a great game. There's no denying though that Yorda isn't exactly the brightest NPC there is.)Quote: True reason why many oppose the said feature is that it takes development time away from the Single Player.Well that and that I guess it is very difficult to design a game or even a level that works equally well in Singleplayer as it does in Co-op. (Unless your name is Valve and you have as much time and money as you want, in which case you just create two separate campaigns.)
It would work in a shooter, where you just adjust the number of enemies accordingly, but how do you design a riddle so that it is possible to do alone, but the second player still doesn't feel useless?
I think one of the two play modes would always suffer.
Even in magicka, when you're playing alone it feels like you're not playing the game as it was meant to be played. First of all because the one-life-only mechanic, combined with the many, oftentimes unfair (but hilarious) ways to die indicate that the game expects there to be a second player who can always resurrect you. And secondly because all dialogues seem to adress multiple persons.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Link01000 - 07-04-2012
(07-04-2012, 10:23 AM)Kreekakon Wrote: *Meanwhile on Skype*So don't use any of the ideas because some people may instead use skype? It already occurred to me that people could just use skype if they wanted to, but it also occurred to me that people would have the common sense to realize that that would ruin the game.
Player 1: Hey buddy, how's going on your end?
Player 2: It's okay, just that this cave in separated us...
Player 1: Dang it! I'm going to miss your cover fire...oh well, I'll meet you up ahead!
Player 2: Hey, I think my character's crying! I think he misses you!
Player 1: Wow, well more the reason to hurry up, and meet up then I suppose!
Player 2: Haha okay!
.....
Get my point?
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Damascus Rose - 07-04-2012
(07-04-2012, 04:49 PM)Link01000 Wrote: So don't use any of the ideas because some people may instead use skype? It already occurred to me that people could just use skype if they wanted to, but it also occurred to me that people would have the common sense to realize that that would ruin the game.No, you would be surprised at the amount of people seemingly don't have common sense, it's very naive to say that. Even if people did realize, it wouldn't stop them.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Kreekakon - 07-04-2012
(07-04-2012, 04:49 PM)Link01000 Wrote: So don't use any of the ideas because some people may instead use skype? It already occurred to me that people could just use skype if they wanted to, but it also occurred to me that people would have the common sense to realize that that would ruin the game.Actually, I think that regardless of immersion, or not, the two players will NEED to have constant normalized communication. Either that, or they have to be sure that their gaming habits, and/or playstyle won't conflict with the other person. Unlike when you're just playing with yourself, during which you can decide when, and when to do what, playing with someone else means that you have worry about their gaming habits as well. For example, what if you were separated in-game, and you suddenly had to exit the game because grandpa suddenly visited? Chat, or skype would then be a must.
Also, when playing co-op, or any team based multiplayer game that emphasizes on teamwork, not being able to communicate with your partner fluently can be infuriating most of the time, and not in an immersive way.
Also remember, no matter how brilliant you paint it this is still just a game, and the fact that the players have the ability to communicate with people they KNOW for sure are real world people, it will break them from the immersion a huge deal. This is even more apparent if the players are roommates, or family, and are playing very close to each other.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Adny - 07-04-2012
Why can't everyone agree these are good ideas, just not for horror? There is no way a co-op game won't break immersion. These ideas definitely sound fine on paper, but I doubt they could be implemented in such a way that wouldn't completely destroy immersion. This type of thread has been made so many times I've honestly lost count, but this one is no different from all the rest; there's a reason there are no survival horror co-op games, they simply don't work.
I challenge the supporters of this to find me a survival horror co-op game that even comes remotely close to the immersion of Amnesia.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 07-04-2012
Well...I think Journey manages to combine co-op with (almost) perfect immersion. But thats an entirely different style of game of course and in no way horror.
Although I found it pretty interesting, that the parts in Journey where enemies were present ALMOST suceeded in being kinda scary. Sneaking past those things with my buddy was really tense the first time I played it. And when he got hit by one of those beasts, I was really worried for a moment, that he might be dead. Especially when he didn't get up right away, but continued to lie there motionless
I immediately rushed to his side and chirped all panicky ^^I think that sort of anonymous, no-communication multiplayer has great potential and maybe you could even make a horror game with that. But it would need to be vastly different from everything thats on the market right now.
The strenghth of multiplayer in horror, imo, could lie in the fact that as social animals, human emotions can be increased by the emotional display of other people around them. Imagine walking home at night with a really paranoid friend who jumps at every shadow and whose body language tells of his fear - after a while you start to get nervous too. Amnesia actually already does this sort of - when you hear the protagonist breathing rapidly or gasping at a sudden jumpscare it heightens the tension because you feel with him.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Link01000 - 07-04-2012
(07-04-2012, 05:30 PM)andyrockin123 Wrote: Why can't everyone agree these are good ideas, just not for horror? There is no way a co-op game won't break immersion. These ideas definitely sound fine on paper, but I doubt they could be implemented in such a way that wouldn't completely destroy immersion. This type of thread has been made so many times I've honestly lost count, but this one is no different from all the rest; there's a reason there are no survival horror co-op games, they simply don't work.When Left 4 Dead first came out, it was a legitimately horrifying game for me to play with friends... but then it kind of lost that somehow... it doesn't scare me anymore, most likely because I understand the game mechanics so much better.... but yeah, that's all I can think of, and not a very good example. After all this discussion, I think I would like it if they just made the game singleplayer, and then maybe had a multiplayer DLC. I think multiplayer horror can be done, but it would take a lot of effort, and the players of the game would actually have to play the game how it was meant to be played. If they were to successfully do it, I think it would be a huge breakthrough in game immersion, because multiplayer has always been a struggle for that.
I challenge the supporters of this to find me a survival horror co-op game that even comes remotely close to the immersion of Amnesia.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Clord - 07-07-2012
(07-04-2012, 10:34 AM)Hirnwirbel Wrote:Actually Magicka is easier on solo, because your allies don't keep killing you and if you know the right spell combinations, you are pretty much unstoppable. Other thing is that games like Magicka are way too easy when grouped with the reliable players.Quote: But that's the point, if you get tired of them you could sacrifice them, without getting game over.Well I probably would have taken kinder to "Ico" if that had been an option...
Quote: True reason why many oppose the said feature is that it takes development time away from the Single Player.Well that and that I guess it is very difficult to design a game or even a level that works equally well in Singleplayer as it does in Co-op. (Unless your name is Valve and you have as much time and money as you want, in which case you just create two separate campaigns.)
It would work in a shooter, where you just adjust the number of enemies accordingly, but how do you design a riddle so that it is possible to do alone, but the second player still doesn't feel useless?
I think one of the two play modes would always suffer.
Even in magicka, when you're playing alone it feels like you're not playing the game as it was meant to be played. First of all because the one-life-only mechanic, combined with the many, oftentimes unfair (but hilarious) ways to die indicate that the game expects there to be a second player who can always resurrect you. And secondly because all dialogues seem to adress multiple persons.
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Tobbe - 07-07-2012
(07-02-2012, 11:53 PM)Unearthlybrutal Wrote: Yes, but... no score systems...realism? why is there monsters than?
It will kill the realism...
RE: How to make an immersion-friendly co-op - Cetex1337 - 07-07-2012
Could be interesting.