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+--- Thread: Connections to Justine? (/thread-22643.html)
Connections to Justine? - Alardem - 08-30-2013
Hello, fellow piggies! I've been lurking this forum ever since the first announcement back last year, and I just want to share a couple of thoughts I had regarding Justine and the upcoming game.
Now, a theme all the Amnesia games share is the cruelty of the aristocracy: Alexander preys upon villagers, Justine treats her suitors and authority figures as toys, and Mandus is doing something unethical with children. Justine emphasized this theme more than its predecessor through the eponymous character's rants, where she claims the aristocracy 'need not know right from wrong'. It's also striking how her "Cabinet of Pertubation" is apparently a holdover from the days of the French Revolution - which is greatly ironic considering that bourgeois like Justine would have been slaughtered in that era.
There are subtle hints that Justine is interested in paranormal artifacts, and that there may even be something inhuman lurking behind her insanity. The 'star-shaped soapstone' which she bludgeons her father to death with is apparently connected to the Orbs that caused the horrors of 1839, and it's possible that this may have led to the insanity of herself and/or her father. I speculate the purpose of her "Cabinet" and the reason why she overdosed on Lithium would be to test her repressed humanity - temporarily deprived of the artifact's influence, Justine can either prove herself to be genuinely evil or compassionate and self-sacrificing.
Additionally, what I refer to as her "Passage of Madness" contains plenty of interesting phrases:
Gluttony
Spin the wheels crank the engine
What will that perfect sphere bring?
They who burrow waits beneath
The skinless one is waking
I am emerging
Plummet through the ancient city
Oh father
One must be wary as to avoid making too much of what is likely to be generically creepy nonsense, but I can't shake off the feeling that the premise of A Machine For Pigs is a continuation of these hints. The 'engine', the use of gluttony, the references to ancient burrowing beings and a skinless monstrosity 'emerging' - doesn't that tie in with a game that features grotesque hybrids of porcine and human, a ravenous and sentient machine, human greed and some hints at a primordial evil from Mexico?
I may be completely off and these observations are just coincidental, but it's entertaining to think that Justine's themes foreshadow A Machine For Pigs. From what I understand, no character in AMFP is descended from anyone from TDD or Justine, which rules out obvious ideas like Mandus being the son/grandson of Daniel and/or Justine. But I'm willing to bet that there will be some references to Justine or the Order of the Black Eagle in Mandus' ordeal.
Some wild ideas:
-Justine's obsession with finding a 'perfect sphere' could foreshadow Mandus' fixation on empowering his unholy machine. It may also be that they are both unwitting pawns of these artifacts, committing acts of evil that horrify them during moments of lucidity.
-If Justine recovered Daniel's unopened letter, she will be motivated to write a letter to inform an unidentified person/organization that she's 'still alive'. Who could that be?
-Justine's father had a 'son'. Justine's little brother? Unless he too died shortly after birth, he's a loose end. I wonder what happened to him...
-The 'swine will rise' - and finally take revenge on the bourgeois that Alexander, Justine and possibly Mandus himself represent.
These thoughts have been stewing around ever since I first played Justine and read the title for the new Amnesia game. Outdated as they may be, I still hope they provide some brain-food for the masses to root through and chew over.
RE: Connections to Justine? - Peci - 08-30-2013
Hello and welcome to this side of reality
I have a very similar history of stalking, even though I theoretically registered last year.It was very interesting to read your thoughts (and facts) about Justine. My knowledge of Justine's plot is somewhat lacking.
Quote:Mandus is doing something unethical with children.
The more I have thought about this, the more I agree. And I think this extends to his own children. Or at the least he let something be done to them.
I also have my thought of the "big picture" and the so called message of the game, but I don't know if I should write this stuff anywhere else than the spoiler thread. I understand that some people want to protect themself from any bits of information.
RE: Connections to Justine? - Alardem - 08-30-2013
(08-30-2013, 10:14 AM)Peci Wrote: Hello and welcome to this side of reality ;) I have a very similar history of stalking, even though I theoretically registered last year.
It was very interesting to read your thoughts (and facts) about Justine. My knowledge of Justine's plot is somewhat lacking.
Quote:Mandus is doing something unethical with children.
The more I have thought about this, the more I agree. And I think this extends to his own children. Or at the least he let something be done to them.
I also have my thought of the "big picture" and the so called message of the game, but I don't know if I should write this stuff anywhere else than the spoiler thread. I understand that some people want to protect themself from any bits of information.
Thanks! Throwing in spoiler tags like party favors is something I'm more than used to by now. :P I haven't played Amnesia or Justine for several months, so any details that were vague (like the phrases in Justine's hallway or the maddening effects of the 'star-shaped soapstone') were looked up on the Amnesia wiki.
I'm not too certain if I like the idea of Justine or Mandus being victims of some supernatural force beyond their reckoning, but I feel there's more to them than meets the eye. Ambiguity is always a great tool to use in horror. It's possible that Justine may have naturally been a sociopath, but it's also plausible that her sadism, patricide and obsession with finding an Orb comes from using the paranormal artifact in her family's possession.
Working off of that, it's possible to see whatever Mandus did in the missing months of AMFP as a combination of his own grief, greed and blind privilege - and perhaps supernatural compulsion. He IS "sick", after all. Looking at it from this angle, Justine and Mandus could be argued to be as much victims of inhuman forces as Daniel was - and Daniel's not at all an innocent lamb himself!
It may be that I'm wrong and Mandus' actions are purely of his own volition, but I still want to hold onto the ill-conceived notion that he may be a better man than the pre-release information make him out to be. Not because I like child-exploiting, imperialistic, greedy capitalists, but because it's a cliche to have you play as an evil amnesiac at this point!