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+-- Forum: Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs (https://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/forum-50.html)
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+--- Thread: Disappointed with AAMFP (/thread-22831.html)
RE: How they ruined the game - Ossie - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 05:28 PM)JustAnotherPlayer Wrote:(09-13-2013, 05:23 PM)Ossie Wrote: I do think that many of those who were disappointed with the game but were mature enough to properly analyse it will 'come around' with time. However the wailing, gnashing 'kids' who have completely dismissed every aspect of it might have to wait to appreciate it (perhaps when they grow up).
That's not me right?
Definitely not as you appear, at least from your posts, to be enjoying it.
RE: How they ruined the game - Paddy™ - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 05:01 PM)Tiger Wrote: Except amfp actually has gameplay, you dumb fuck.
Not cool.
These pages are moderated, just letting y'all know. Civility is next to...godility!
RE: How they ruined the game - Streetboat - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 05:15 PM)bobbo Wrote:(09-13-2013, 05:01 PM)Tiger Wrote:
Except amfp actually has gameplay, you dumb fuck.
Could we please discuss our opinions without insulting each other?
(09-13-2013, 05:04 PM)Streetboat Wrote: You controlled the movement and look direction of your guy, right? You had a lantern that you could willingly bring out and put away, right? It was completely up to you to understand and solve the puzzles, right? Boom, there you have it; gameplay.
Come on, it's obvious what these people mean with "no gameplay". They - including me - wanted more than pressing W and dragging the one puzzle object every five rooms to the one only fitting solution point a few steps further.
(09-13-2013, 05:04 PM)Streetboat Wrote: It kind of saddens me that TCR took a more intellectual approach to horror and the vast majority (at least, the vocal majority) is raving and screaming like rabid hyenas. Are you all so jaded on horror games like TDD, Slender and its many clone children, jump-scare custom stories, and Outlast that you need to have some gross monster beating you down for you to feel "scared"? You can't possibly comprehend the horror that comes with the thought that an entire complex exists and was built with the sole purpose of snatching innocent people, feeding them to a meatgrinder, and being fed to a race of genetically mutated man-pigs actually doesn't scare you? Does the immediate scare have to happen to YOU for a game to be considered scary? Are you simply incapable of thinking outside your own little bubble, of thinking about the lives your character impacts and the horrors wrought upon them? Of the unspeakable things human nature allows us to do when all social norms and constructs are cast aside?
To me this story was plain boring. The "I'm-doing-good-for-society-because-I-clear-it-from-the-scum"-villain is old.
(09-13-2013, 05:04 PM)Streetboat Wrote: Actually try thinking about a game and what it's trying to accomplish next time before you grab your torches and pitchforks. TCR tried something different, and you all hated it because it wasn't exactly the same as its predecessor, made by a different company entirely. How pathetic is that?
The only thing pathetic here is how we cannot discuss our good and bad impressions in a civil manner.
1) Yes, I understand what the intended message was- my point was that I, like Tiger, am very tired of hearing the same exaggerated argument over and over again.
2) I don't think you quite understand the full scope of the story. Your character was both the pro- and antagonist at the same time, chasing down a redemption that was impossible for dead children you killed yourself for misguided reasons- it was an actual descent into madness. This story illustrates insanity far better than the quavering edges of the screen in TDD ever did. That was one "gameplay element" that I don't particularly miss- in every custom story I ever did (where I knew how to change it) I had to mess around with that effect to make it either non-intrusive or change its name entirely (aka changing "insanity" to "warmth" in a cold-themed story) to make more sense.
3) You failed to actually respond to what I was saying, all you commented on was my use of the word pathetic.
(09-13-2013, 05:22 PM)slo64 Wrote:(09-13-2013, 05:04 PM)Streetboat Wrote:
It's really frustrating to hear everyone spout the same thing: "There was no gameplay!"
You controlled the movement and look direction of your guy, right? You had a lantern that you could willingly bring out and put away, right? It was completely up to you to understand and solve the puzzles, right? Boom, there you have it; gameplay.
...
Actually try thinking about a game and what it's trying to accomplish next time before you grab your torches and pitchforks. TCR tried something different, and you all hated it because it wasn't exactly the same as its predecessor, made by a different company entirely. How pathetic is that?
Still no gameplay. You can move and walk around in google streetview. Doesn't make it a game. And no, there's no puzzles. They are no more puzzles than clicking a link for next video at youtube.
Now. For the "comprehend horror" part. I totally did. The demo is filled with all sorts of awesome stuffs. Now I want the game, nes pa?
Like... Full game. With doors to open, dead ends, death traps, consumables, health, sanity, maybe even hunger so I can eat dubious meat and feel the chill of doing it, macabre contraptions (that I could use), some hog monster wandering around so I could hide from it and wait for it to leave, environment I could interact with, puzzles that make you think and make you do weird stuff like extracting vitae, chase sequences, stealth sequences... Monsters that kill you instead of chewing you for unlimited time.
And then we are really getting somewhere.
Yeah, I never disagreed that it would have been nice to have more puzzles that required use of items and so forth. However, what I am not doing is getting all hung up on that and letting it ruin the game for me. It's pretty clear they were trying to move the experience along and keep the story flowing, like a book rather than a game. When have you ever watched a movie or read a book where everything just pauses for 10-15 minutes while the protagonist ponders the solution to a difficult puzzle and wanders around the environment for a while trying to find the item they need? AMFP, once again, was trying something different here; it was experimenting further with a storytelling medium that they began with in Dear Esther- using the medium of gaming to have a more immersive, full palette of experiences and tell your story visually, auditorily, and allow the person to be involved. As mentioned before, TDD was focused more on scares, and that's why people remember it. People will remember AMFP for different reasons. That's what they were trying to do, and they did it well; everyone who levels criticism against the game, so far as I can see, is merely expecting the game to be something it is not, and was never trying to be. That is all.
(09-13-2013, 05:41 PM)bobbo Wrote:
And the insulting continues - now everybody not appreciating the game is a kid. Next in line is probably "too stupid to understand the story".
You fail to realize that it's not about that. It's about the question wether a game stripped almost entirely to the story still works for the audience, especially when it comes under the brand name that established a totally different content. Or about the question wether the missing blurry vision when staring at a monster was making this game less scary. Or wether a puzzle that only asks you to turn a wheel left, press a button in the middle and pull down a lever on the right makes you feel smart or like an idiot jumping through hoops.
It works for a certain audience. You just may not be a part of that audience. It's not the end of the world if you aren't; just wait until Frictional Games' Super Secret Project that they're working on in-house at this moment- yes, that's right, a "true" FG game, not one made by another company, with a different vision.
Folks, I won't say this again. If you didn't like the game, then you didn't like it. Don't tell all of us it's a bad game with no gameplay, because that's missing the larger picture. Just accept that it wasn't what you wanted it to be, and honor the fact that there are those of us who really do enjoy the story that grips us, surrounds us, and takes us for a ride through hell.
RE: How they ruined the game - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - 09-13-2013
bobbo Wrote:It's about the question wether a game stripped almost entirely to the story still works for the audience[...]A while ago, I would have said "no, that can't work". Then I played Journey and it expanded my view of what games can do tremendously. A game with no real "game" in it, except for walking in one really obvious direction, yet it had a huge emotional impact.
So far, I have to admit that pigs didn't have the same impact on me, even though I quite like it. I do, however, firmly believe that this is not due to the aforementioned features having been removed. A certain type of game (maybe we shouldn't call it "game", but rather something like "interactive experience") can definitely work without all those traditional gameplay elements, better even than with them.
It does need something equally strong and engaging to balance that out, though, be it in the narrative, the visuals or maybe even (as is the case with Journey) the interactions with other players. I'm not quite sure whether these balancing elements are strong enough in pigs - it feels a bit empty and shallow... like they could have done more to make me care about the world, story and characters. Still, overall it is a very interesting and refreshing experience and not really comparable to TTD, since they are very different approaches.
RE: How they ruined the game - bobbo - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 06:02 PM)Streetboat Wrote: 2) I don't think you quite understand the full scope of the story.
I do understand that "opposite side" of the story, I was just shortening things. Since the death of the kids was pretty obvious from the beginning and due to the development it also became obvious that "I" had to do with it, I found this part equally boring.
(09-13-2013, 06:02 PM)Streetboat Wrote: 3) You failed to actually respond to what I was saying, all you commented on was my use of the word pathetic.
Yes, to be honest, after being called pathetic I had no desire to discuss the content anymore.
(09-13-2013, 06:02 PM)Streetboat Wrote: It works for a certain audience. You just may not be a part of that audience.
Which is exactly what I meant. I did not mean: They did not please the audience. I meant: With this extremely mixed feedback the question arises wether it is worth creating games this way or not. Which we could discuss here if not every new post was close to starting another flamewar.
(09-13-2013, 06:02 PM)Streetboat Wrote: It's not the end of the world if you aren't; just wait until Frictional Games' Super Secret Project that they're working on in-house at this moment- yes, that's right, a "true" FG game, not one made by another company, with a different vision.
Of course it's not the end of the world - no need to ridicule the anger of people with an opposing opinion. But it's still a huge disappointment for people who had been expecting a different game based on the promotion on this site.
RE: How they ruined the game - Streetboat - 09-13-2013
In my honest opinion, yes, I think it is worth trying risky new directions with video games. What better genre to create a solely story-based game with little interactive capabilities than with a horror game that touches on psychosis and loneliness?
If we don't have companies like FG and TCR that put themselves at risk of critique and aim for new directions of gaming that they're not entirely sure will work, we will never have innovation. Lack of innovation is why we have an over-saturation of modern warfare first person shooters with ironsights and perks. No innovation = pandering to the lowest common denominator in order to get sales. Focus on sales = creating a rut of innovative stagnation so no one is ballsy enough to step outside the comfort zone and try new directions.
RE: How they ruined the game - slo64 - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 06:02 PM)Streetboat Wrote: ...
AMFP, once again, was trying something different here; it was experimenting further with a storytelling medium that they began with in Dear Esther- using the medium of gaming to have a more immersive, full palette of experiences and tell your story visually, auditorily, and allow the person to be involved
...
Folks, I won't say this again. If you didn't like the game, then you didn't like it. Don't tell all of us it's a bad game with no gameplay, because that's missing the larger picture. Just accept that it wasn't what you wanted it to be, and honor the fact that there are those of us who really do enjoy the story that grips us, surrounds us, and takes us for a ride through hell.
First, just to note it: My immersion was irreversibly broken the moment I understood that my actions do not affect the outcome.
Second, didn't it happen to you that maybe you hear about "no gameplay" over and over because there's really no gameplay? Please stop saying that AAMFP has gameplay just because you like it. Just accept it, it is an interactive narrative, that totally lacks game. Enjoy the story, embrace it and call the game something other than Amnesia:
Spoiler below!
RE: How they ruined the game - zico - 09-13-2013
If you want Amnesia - The Dark Descent: Play Amnesia - The Dark Descent
If you want MORE Amnesia - The Dark Descent: Play Amnesia - The Dark Descent Custom Stories and/or Justine
If you want something new: TRY Amnesia - A Machine For Pigs with an open mind and do not expect the above
If you follow these instructions and do not like Amnesia - A Machine For Pigs, congratulations, you had no fun.
RE: How they ruined the game - ZyLogicX - 09-13-2013
Said noone intelligent.
RE: How they ruined the game - slo64 - 09-13-2013
(09-13-2013, 06:49 PM)zico Wrote: If you want Amnesia - The Dark Descent: Play Amnesia - The Dark Descent
If you want MORE Amnesia - The Dark Descent: Play Amnesia - The Dark Descent Custom Stories and/or Justine
If you want something new: TRY Amnesia - A Machine For Pigs with an open mind and do not expect the above
If you follow these instructions and do not like Amnesia - A Machine For Pigs, congratulations, you had no fun.
Wait wait wait, I think I am probably starting to get it...
If I want an Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs GAME that I was kinda promised, for the money I've PAID, I should probably GO F*** MYSELF, because it's a tech demo or something.
Thanks, dude!