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+--- Thread: What hides between Shadow and Light? (/thread-2375.html)
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Kedjane - 07-29-2009
Pretty sour that there was an error in the sequence all along.
I suck at codebreaking, mainly because I mainly visit this forum at night. I can still think logically though, so can anyone find a relation between the words "snare", "sloth" and "smear"?
They have all got five letters, begin with an s (he might have chosen all s words because it's an easy letter to begin the code with or because it has to be an s) and unless the first words must be solved first if some relation is found between snare, sloth and smear that could help us with the rest of the words.
Anyhow, that Vernam thing leads you to a cipher. Can anyone make anything out of that wiki page? I'm not natively english so I'm not familiar with several words plus I'm not good with codes in general and the Vernam cipher seems hard (how can one solve a code with a random key if the key is not known or every single possibility is not tried?).
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Tommy Gun - 07-30-2009
Ok the vernam cipher is more accurately, an algorithim in its unrefined format. It is a very strong cipher, nigh unbreakable if used correctly. But this is a games forum, not a nuclear missile silo.... ithink.
Vernam ciphers must exactly fit the required blocks, otherwise the encryption is useless. So we have our method.
so first we have our letters put into squares, like what Bloody_Eugene did earlier:
YNGPPUZFV
KJZIDSTCW
IZVYIDFYV
QOPSBAVJU
IUNJVPLIF
RMHMZQDFA
BMNWMMLRY
SWAQAZRSX
QEDMJWHSG
and
VJBSFJ
VTCSVV
CPFIMG
MUNSOC
OQGRRJ
UCAVIS
These were done horizontal wise, but they could be vertical wise for all we know.
Next: How to MAKE one:
QUOTE:
First, we must change all periods to and "x" In example, "Hello." becomes "Hellox" Also all signs like
"$", "&" "@" and such must be also changed to their respective word forms. Also spell out ALL numbers, i.e. ONE
THREE SIX NINE, etc.
Now for the method. Lets say the following is my Pad of random numbers:
3243 8532 1978 3576 2884 0582 1024 7249 0184 2467 4824 0572 4397
Your one time pad would be longer, but this is all we will need for our first message.
One good way to make a one time pad is to take a series of random letters, like
"ADHIWURTQMCKOKEZPLWIEUCNAOURSF" and use the key below to convert them into numbers. Split
them into groups of four for simplicity.
Now we must convert out letters to numbers. And type of key here can be used, but for simplicity lets go with this:
A=01 B=02 C=03 D=04 E=05 F=6 G=07 H=08 I=09 J=10 K=11 L=12 M=13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19
T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26
Simple enough, but it will still be an unbreakable code. Remember to use "01" instead of "1" and so on or your
math will not come out right.
Now lets create our message, say:
"Meet me at Eleven."
This message must be formatted like so:
"MEET ME AT ELEVENX"
When coding the message, end the message with "XX" to signal end of the message. If needed, add
additional X's to 'pad-out', or run out the current 4 digit number string.
Now to encrypt the message. First, change the letters to numbers:
13050520 1305 0120 05120522051424
Then format into 4 digit phrases:
1305 0520 1305 0120 0512 0522 0514 2424
Notice I added two X's at the end to signal termination. If this would not have come out even, I would have just
added more.
Now to encode the message. The numbers are added with Fibonacci Addition. Numbers ARE NOT carried over to
the next column. I.E. 92+71=63. You add left to right this way. Notice the first group of four numbers is not used
to encode the message. This is the start key, and when the message is received the person can tell by this un-
changed number where in his pad the message starts. So lets encode our string.
First is the pad numbers, then the message numbers. (I chopped off the un-needed numbers from our pad example.
One time pad: 3243 8532 1978 3576 2884 0582 1024 7249 0184 Message: ---- 1305 0520 1305 0120 0512 0522 0514 2424 Result: 3243 9837 1498 4871 2904 0094 1546 7753 2598
Tada! You know have your encrypted message.
UNQUOTE
So thats basically, it. However, these are numbers im showing you, not letters, now the soviet espionage wing used to take things a bit further, and use numbers to encode it again. we can probably find salvation
from........
The given random number string.
3, 9, 7, 4, 8, 9, 5, 7, 11, 6, 6, 13, 7,
8, 6, 9, 6, 11, 8, 13, 10, 15, 8, 11, 4, 9,
26 letters of the alphabet- 26 numbers. How we do this im not sure... my mathmatics isn't that developed.
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - WindexGlow - 07-30-2009
See, I told you guys it was right in front of your face! (the whole missing numbers part..)
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Kedjane - 07-31-2009
(07-30-2009, 11:42 PM)WindexGlow Wrote: See, I told you guys it was right in front of your face! (the whole missing numbers part..)
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say the missing numbers weren't in front of our faces?
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Bloody_Eugene - 08-08-2009
"These hole digging critters have a population that increase rapidly. There must be a way to track this development and make the infestation come to an end."
Hole digging creatures = rabbits!
Developement = Fibonacci!
make the infestation come to an end= ?
Fibonacci Rabbit Sequence : http://people.bath.ac.uk/tep20/fibonaccisrabbits.html
But really nothing new.....
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Bloody_Eugene - 08-08-2009
Ok, my brain is gone!
That's what I have:
1) "These hole digging critters have a population that increase rapidly. There must be a way to track this development and make the infestation come to an end." = FIBONACCI
2)
20 T -> B 2 ( 2+0 = 2 )
3 C -> C 3 ( 3=3 )
17 Q -> H 8 (1+7 = 8)
3) Silently Evil Emerged Darkness Snare (or Sloth or Smear, etc) = SEEDS
Please note that Fibonacci series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number) needs 2 SEEDS!!!!
4) THE TWO SEEDS!!!!
3, 9, 7, 4, 8, 9, 5, 7, 11, 6, 6, 13, 7,
8, 6, 9, 6, 11, 8, 13, 10, 15, 8, 11, 4, 9,
two rows of 13 numbers and then....
5)
YNGPPUZFVKJZI
DSTCWIZVYIDFY
VQOPSBAVJUIUN
JVPLIFRMHMZQD
FABMNWMMLRYSW
AQAZRSXQEDMJW
HSGVJBSFJVTCS
VVCPFIMGMUNSO
COQGRRJUCAVIS
nine lines of 13 characters!!!!!!!
so numbers and lines must be connected each other!!!!
but how???????
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Bloody_Eugene - 08-09-2009
This thing is driving me insaaaaaaannnneeee!
some toughts:
- "All parts above the secret text must be solved/understood before the text can be deciphered": so we have to find the connection between the 2 rows of numbers before. And we have yet to undestand what to do with "T -> B" "C -> C" and "Q -> H"
- "Analyzing the text alone will not give any information unless the above parts are solved and understood": Isn't this the same statement of "All parts above the secret text must be solved/understood before the text can be deciphered"? Bah.
- "The puzzle is quite math focused, but no major knowledge is required". Yeah, where do we have to apply math? we still hadn't do nothing!
- "Most (if not all) of the solutions to the different parts (above the text) have been touched at in the previous posts": I don't think that the solution of the second line of numbers has solved in any posts, because the original sequence was wrong.
- "Less-safe-procedural-Vernam": I think that the key to decipher the text is procedural... that means that the key is not a word, but a series of numbers to use with each letter of the text. And these series of number could use the Fibonacci sequence somehow.
- "The numbers in the sequences are not the that important. What is important is the thing that they lead to": So, again, we're missing the math!!!
BTW I really don't find a pattern for the second line of numbers.
Anyone tried to find it?
Please help me!!!!!
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Sunspots - 08-09-2009
While I know We need to figure out the numbers before the letters, I tried to put the two lines of letters against each other as with a one-time pad deciphering and this is my terrible results:
When I use the first line as the ciphertext and the second as the key, my result is something starting with "TWHHUD..." which is certainly not the beginning of a word so I stopped there.
Then I used the second line as the ciphertext and the first one as the key instead, the result is something starting with "XWVDQP..." which neither is any kind of word.
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - Bloody_Eugene - 08-09-2009
I'm still trying to track down the second line and i've found this:
8...6...9...6...11...8...13...10...15...8...11...4...9
..-2..+3...-3...+5...-3...+5...-3....+5...-7...+3...-7...+5
I'll try to write it in another way:
8 (-2=) 6 (+3=) 9 (-3=) 6 (+5=) 11 (-3=) 8 (+5=) 13 (-3=) 10 (+5=) 15 (-7=) 8 (+3=) 11 (-7=) 4 (+5=) 9
Please note that the signs are -,+,-,+,-,+,-,+,-,+,-,......
And that the numbers to add/subtract are all prime numbers.
Can't find a path tough!
(08-09-2009, 02:21 PM)Sunspots Wrote: While I know We need to figure out the numbers before the letters, I tried to put the two lines of letters against each other as with a one-time pad deciphering and this is my terrible results:
When I use the first line as the ciphertext and the second as the key, my result is something starting with "TWHHUD..." which is certainly not the beginning of a word so I stopped there.
Then I used the second line as the ciphertext and the first one as the key instead, the result is something starting with "XWVDQP..." which neither is any kind of word.
Good try, anyway dude! We must try anything!!!
I'm speechless now... I don't know what to do...
Come on, guys, let's team together and beat this damn puzzle!!!!!
"Less-safe-procedural-Vernom"
what "procedural" means?
i found this:
![[Image: overview_morphology_branching.gif]](http://www.td-grafik.de/artic/talk20030122/overview_morphology_branching.gif)
![[Image: fibrabbits.gif]](http://people.bath.ac.uk/tep20/fibrabbits.gif)
RE: What hides between Shadow and Light? - dreadi - 08-09-2009
Haha. Does that last picture depict the insanity that spreads as new people are introduced to this thread?