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RE: Religion - BAndrew - 04-30-2014

@Ghieri
Don't you know? The Bible doesn't mean it literally. Suddenly this becomes a self-defence when you don't have anything else to say to support your belief.

@Dogfood
Continuing from Ghieri's point (that you also have stated):

Quote:Not to be a dick, but you've kind of been dismissing our arguments because you "have faith". So you might be open to most things, but questioning religion isn't one of them, yes?


You have been addressing our arguments, but you also keep saying that you aren't going to change your mind about religion.

Are you so blind that you can't accept simple facts? I mean you aren't going to change your mind ever, no matter what evidence or aguments we provide you. Even if I (hypothetically) prove mathematically or experimentally that God doesn't exist you would deny it just because "You have faith".
We don't say that you should stop believing, but dismissing everything, even if it is obvious (like 1+1=2, which has been proved), that goes against your faith means you are brainwashed.

For example, despite the countless references to the Bible you still don't accept that it says Earth is flat.


RE: Religion - eliasfrost - 04-30-2014

Quote:Are you so blind that you can't accept simple facts? I mean you aren't going to change your mind ever, no matter what evidence or aguments we provide you. Even if I (hypothetically) prove mathematically or experimentally that God doesn't exist you would deny it just because "You have faith".
We don't say that you should stop believing, but dismissing everything, even if it is obvious (like 1+1=2, which has been proved), that goes against your faith means you are brainwashed.

I just read this as: "You should stop believing but you shouldn't stop believing but this here evidence should make you stop believing but you don't have to. Are you brainwashed?"

I can't make sense of it sorry.


RE: Religion - BAndrew - 04-30-2014

@eliasfrost

Hint: You read it wrong


RE: Religion - eliasfrost - 04-30-2014

(04-30-2014, 11:22 PM)BAndrew Wrote: @eliasfrost

Hint: You read it wrong

Care to explain what you meant?


RE: Religion - Nice - 04-30-2014

I said i'm done for today so that means i'm avoiding and denying your ultimate truth? You're making bullshit up and putting words in my mouth. Where did I deny things by saying "it's faith?" Nowhere, I said that some of my own examples, "evidence" from my side comes from faith alone however I never used that to support myself in the free will thing, nor the Earth is round, flat, triangle whatever.

I'm done with this thread now because -no offense- it feels like talking to a wall, except that a wall would not make up false accusations by putting words in my mouth.

Without a doubt you once again see this as me dismissing things, or how brainwashed I am. In which case i'll just resolve to a good ol' fuck you but have a nice day <3 Enjoy your pride and hopefully our next talk will be a bit more casual and chill - peace


RE: Religion - BAndrew - 04-30-2014

@eliasfrost

Step by step:

The fact that it is true and he should accept (let's call it fact A)

A: Bible suggests that the Earth is flat.

1. We presented him strong evidence
2. However, he won't change his mind about this because of his faith
3. Therefore his faith restrains his ability to think independently (which is in other words the definition for brainwashing)


However I am not saying he should not believe in general (That's a personal choice). The point is that he sould accept A unless he is brainwashed or blinded by his faith.


RE: Religion - eliasfrost - 04-30-2014

So this is all about something as trifling as whether the world is flat or not? Geez, I'm pretty sure Dogfood doesn't believe the world is flat but he understands that the bible (and other scriptures) talk in metaphore rather than straight-up facts, I thought that was a given.


RE: Religion - Ghieri - 04-30-2014

Can't speak for BAndrew, but I did not take your "Done for the day" as "LOL im rite ur rong" I was referring to these:

Quote:I think it's pointless and goes nowhere because atheists demand a scientific evidence of a concept that relies on faith.

Quote:"evidence" from my side comes from faith alone

Faith > Evidence

Quote:As Kman have said, no one has even changed their personal belief because of a debate on the internet.

"I'm not changing my mind."

Quote: Also I like to think that our existence, the planet existence heck the whole existence of the world is more than just a side effect of some natural events.

"I like the idea so I'm going to just stick with it."

Quote:I dont expect faith to get me anywhere its just a personal thing.

"It's part of my identity, so I don't want to change it."

If I'm reading into this too deeply, please correct me. But it certainly sounds like it. Also, the "talking to the wall" thing is kind of ironic, since you said yourself:

Quote:As Kman have said, no one has even changed their personal belief because of a debate on the internet.



RE: Religion - BAndrew - 04-30-2014

(04-30-2014, 08:53 PM)Dogfood Wrote: I think it's pointless and goes nowhere because atheists demand a scientific evidence of a concept that relies on faith. Aaaanyways, I dont expect anyone to believe this, not at all. Which is EXACTLY my point why it's hard to debate a concept that relies on faith to a person that demands a concrete evidence on every single claim.

Sure, evidence is pointless isn't it?


(04-30-2014, 09:22 PM)Dogfood Wrote: ^ point of this is just to let you know that even though I follow religion i'm open to everything.

Yes you are open to anything EXCEPT questioning (notice I said questioning not denying) your religion.


Edit: BAndrew, bible does not state anywhere that the earth is flat. Infact the only time it mentions the shape of Earth is when it describes it as a sphere



Double edit: I'm looking for YourComputer's post where he quoted it from the bible and the exact same chapter of it. Just as evidence.

You never found it. And even if you did it would contradict the Bible.



(04-30-2014, 11:31 PM)Dogfood Wrote: I said i'm done for today so that means i'm avoiding and denying your ultimate truth? You're making bullshit up and putting words in my mouth. Where did I deny things by saying "it's faith?" Nowhere.it feels like talking to a wall, except that a wall would not make up false accusations by putting words in my mouth.

Yeah right nowhere. Except here:

(04-30-2014, 09:55 PM)Dogfood Wrote: Isaiah, you have load of references where it marks the surface as a circle

I cant comment those two examples because doesnt "across it" mean just through the whole thing?

"Clay under a seal" - No idea what that means, or what clay means.

here:

(04-30-2014, 09:41 PM)Dogfood Wrote: There's a fine geographical thingy called West, North, South and East. "Ends of earth" means from far away, you see that in modern literature, it's an artistic expression. There's an expression "Travelling to the ends of the Earth" and such it does not mean it literally

Here's the "it doesn't mean in literally" excuse despite the evidence.

and here:

(04-30-2014, 08:53 PM)Dogfood Wrote: and when it comes to me personally, it would take a lot to convince me away from my faith.


As we can see above you NEVER said that or did that...


RE: Religion - PutraenusAlivius - 05-01-2014

(04-30-2014, 08:53 PM)Dogfood Wrote: Now in modern days, religion is friendly to science,

Tell that to my previous religion that says that Evolution is false.