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[SPOILER] Did she tell him? - Printable Version

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[SPOILER] Did she tell him? - FlawlessHappiness - 09-27-2015

In the end, where Catherine says Simon had been too ignorant to understand that there was a 50% chance they'd get on the Ark, did she actually clearly say it anywhere in the game? Or did she only hint towards it?

Got any quotes?

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - Kein - 09-27-2015

The "coin toss" thing being explained I think during or after power suit event, can't recall.

Either way it is a bluff, there is no such thing. The copy is your perfect copy, the only difference is memories and consciousness pattern that starts to deviate due to different experience. The guy who killed himself with cyanide (Sarang?) has the files in his room that explain it.

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - Oscar House - 09-27-2015

Yeah, she already explained how it works after
Spoiler below!
the swap from Simon-2 to Simon-3.

Computer: Copy Completed.
Simon-2: There must be something wrong. Can't you run a diagnosis or something? Catherine...
Simon-3: What was that?
Catherine: No, I... it's just...
Simon-3: Why was it still talking?
Catherine: It's the same. Like before.
Simon-3: Catherine. Why was he still talking?
Catherine: That's how it works. You know that.
Simon-3: What do you mean?!
Catherine: You know it's not magic. You were copied. The sleeping Simon in the seat was copied... and now you are here. Just like Simon lived on in Toronto.
Simon-3: Goddamn you Cath. Two Simons? There can't be two Simons!
Catherine: What did you think would happen?!
Simon-3: That you were going to take my mind and put it in to the other body. Like a brain transplant.
Catherine: I'm sorry. It wouldn't work that way.
Simon-3: You realize how messed up this is?
Catherine: Please, I didn't mean to upset--
Simon-3: How did you expect me to react to this shit?
Catherine: Please, stop.
Simon-3: You're fucking disgusting!


RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - FlawlessHappiness - 09-27-2015

(09-27-2015, 01:00 PM)Oscar House Wrote: Yeah, she already explained how it works after
Spoiler below!
the swap from Simon-2 to Simon-3.

Computer: Copy Completed.
Simon-2: There must be something wrong. Can't you run a diagnosis or something? Catherine...
Simon-3: What was that?
Catherine: No, I... it's just...
Simon-3: Why was it still talking?
Catherine: It's the same. Like before.
Simon-3: Catherine. Why was he still talking?
Catherine: That's how it works. You know that.
Simon-3: What do you mean?!
Catherine: You know it's not magic. You were copied. The sleeping Simon in the seat was copied... and now you are here. Just like Simon lived on in Toronto.
Simon-3: Goddamn you Cath. Two Simons? There can't be two Simons!
Catherine: What did you think would happen?!
Simon-3: That you were going to take my mind and put it in to the other body. Like a brain transplant.
Catherine: I'm sorry. It wouldn't work that way.
Simon-3: You realize how messed up this is?
Catherine: Please, I didn't mean to upset--
Simon-3: How did you expect me to react to this shit?
Catherine: Please, stop.
Simon-3: You're fucking disgusting!

Ah, right.
So he WAS really just being ignorant, not realizing the situation.

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - hollowleviathan - 09-27-2015

On top of that, in the laboratory, he finds
Spoiler below!
the audio recordings of Simon-1 after the scan, living the rest of his normal but brief life in Toronto as a meat-based normal human.

FURTHERMORE, he has found the bodies of Catherine and Brandon Wan after their scans were done, and intercepted buffer recordings of them communicating as separate people from the Omnitool-inhabiting Cath-2 and the Brandon-2 scan they load to interrogate.

He's had numerous examples that both people keep on being people. If I'm frank, it seems like he's just not very bright.


RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - JohnDoe - 09-27-2015

I don't think he keeps missing it because he's not bright, it's because he's repressing it. Remember how he first saw his hands as human? Simon is slightly delusional through the whole game. He ponders it explicitly during the zeppelin ride, wondering if his delusions are the only thing keeping him mostly sane.


Saying the coin toss metaphor is a bluff isn't really accurate. It's more a matter of perspective. From the perspective of the 'copy' he won the coin toss, from the perspective of the 'original' he loses. Assuming a perfect copy, I don't think it's fair to say copy isn't the same person as the original.

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - caffeine4671 - 09-27-2015

I really liked how Simon reacted, despite some criticizing it. It's a commonly-held belief that one's own consciousness and mind are somehow special and that you as yourself can't 'end'. In reality, Simon 2 was never transferred, the player was experiencing memories of Simon and Simon-2, no 'coin toss' at all.

"NO NO, I'M A SUPER SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE, MY CONSCIOUSNESS BREAKS THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, NOPE NOPE" is what a lot of people and me (at times)think, that we can't somehow be a product of nature and our consciousness being a bunch of neurons firing, our minds are somehow magical and break reality. Wink

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - cantremember - 09-27-2015

Indeed there isn't really a "coin toss", but it's a matter of perspective. Before the copy there is only one instance;
The fact that you are actively moving around before the copy exists means you are the original and you will be the one to "lose".
Suddenly appearing in another body is how the "copy" would perceive it, but by the time this happens the pre-copy events are merely his memories that he kept.

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - Darth Biomech - 09-28-2015

That thing, I think, can be solve through, if you create the copy and then run both iterations in sync with each others for some time (shared thoughts, sensory inputs and memories, that stuff). That will merge them into one consciousness and thus solve the continuity "cointoss" issue. Would require some additional work in case of syncing meat human and his digital scan, though, but after that it should be easy and straightforward.

RE: [SPOILER] Did she tell him? - cantremember - 09-28-2015

(09-28-2015, 06:22 AM)Darth Biomech Wrote: That thing, I think, can be solve through, if you create the copy and then run both iterations in sync with each others for some time (shared thoughts, sensory inputs and memories, that stuff). That will merge them into one consciousness and thus solve the continuity "cointoss" issue. Would require some additional work in case of syncing meat human and his digital scan, though, but after that it should be easy and straightforward.

Interesting idea. I think in the game world two cortex chips always means two conciousnesses, and you can't just "fuse" them without destroying and reconstructing them.
Or if it were possible, Simon would exist as two interlinked bodies, and killing half of his "body" would be tremendously painful.