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Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Yggalf - 09-30-2015
First of all i wanna say a big Thank you to Frictional Games for making this game. I replayed the game now 5 times and still try to put the Story puzzles together
In my playtroughs i realized many things that others can either verify or disprove however i thought they are worth discussing so i will mention them. And i will mention quite alot.
Also i must apologize for the length of this post but it actually needs a lot of explanation since the story is way more complex then it would look like in the first place.
1. Is Simon just dreaming all that?
Well it could be since all the way from his apartment to Dr. Munshi indicates that.
Near his bed he has 2 posters. One is showing a man in a divesuit under water and the other poster showing Space!
In his night box is a book about a horror story with *Black Tentacles* in the water that hunt humans to pull them under water.
Near his TV is a DVD about a guy who has to fight everything to save the world. Sounds familiar?
The user interface of Simons PC is the same as everywhere in Pathos 2. I find it hard to believe that nothing changed in 100 years.
The user interface at Dr. Munshis lab is the same as Simons or in Pathos 2.
Simon has to search for a 4 digit code to enter that code to open the door that leads to Dr. Munshi.
In Pathos 2 Simon also has to search for 4 digit codes to open Doors.
His way to Dr. Munshi is with the Subway where he sees a blonde woman. A homeless guy who talks to himself and black man in a suit.
A Blonde Woman who looks very much like the Women from the subway is the first interviewed person about the arc by catherine as seen at lambda.
A Black Guy who looks very much like the Blacman from the Subway is covered in WAU structure at TAU and holding a picture of his son and sleep talking about his dream.
Do i believe Simon is dreaming all that? No. But can i ignore all that either? Also no. To me its simply because his brain already had to suffer from severe damage that his scanned mind simply tries to find it easier to not go insane by visualy lying to Simon.
It would even make more sense since we saw when Simon feared drowning how his human looking hands changed to the dive suit hands.
Also when you first use your flashlight he doesn't understand whats happening and simply says "Where did i get a flashlight" and still not realize that his hands don't hold anything or where used in the process of turning this light on.
Like Catherine explained to Simon on the way to Theta he found a balance between insanity and ignorance to not go nuts about not being human anymore.
2. Why did the WAU react the way it did and whats up with all the monsters? Well its stated in the game that a leak of structure gel that made the WAU that powerfull as we all could witness. After the Structure Gel drops on the WAU it goes insane and starts killing ppl without reason. Thats simply put a lie and nothing in the game shows that this is even in the slightest true.
The WAU realizes before everyone else over the Surface Communication Station Omega that the Comet will end all life on the Surface and that Pathos 2 is the rest of Humanity.
It starts to scann everyone and everything it can get a hold of and starts to store them wherever there is space for them. While Imogen Reed and the rest don't understand whats even happening and start researching those events with talking Robots who actually are convinced they are real humans, the Comet hits Earth and by the structural damage to Alpha the structure gel connects with the Wau increasing the reach and the intelligence of the WAU drastically.
Someone i guess Akers or Ross build a Monitor and did add structure Gel to see what the WAU would actually do with that. The Vivarium was born. Meanwhile Reed made the Videos of Robots who think they are actuall Humans. The Vivarium gets found near Alpha by a Salvage Mission and Reed wants to take a look at it. Reed realized the Moment the Monitor starts showing an exact scan of her what the WAU is up to. Deleting her scanned self and quarantine and later demontage the Vivarium.
However Catherine could build up on the Vivarium parts (as seen in her Room in Theta) and actually has a Blueprint for the ARK! The WAU actually showed Catherine what she has to do to save humanity and meanwhile tries to work on its own version of the personal Ark for everyone.
Reed frightend by the WAU try to stop the WAU and together with Ross they make the new Structure Gel. She is the Girl that did understand what had to be done that Ross is talking about when talking with Simon at Alpha. To ensure that the ppl of Pathos 2 still have enough energy when the WAU is turned off Reed travels to Ypsilon to ensure the Electricity. The WAU already using the Energy generated by the Sunken Ship has no choice but to kill Reed to ensure its own safety. I assume that Reed died by the Pathoswide overloading of the Blackboxes in everyones head by WAU. However this ensures Simons first Body. As The WAU already experiments with building androids based on humans.
We know for a fact that the WAU is an A.I that was a Secret Goverment operation as the Documents in Sarangs room indicate. Sarang and Ross arranged that WAU get full access to everything which later leads to that the WAU runs almost everything and shut outs the ppl of Pathos 2 where it doesn't want them to go or simply turn off comunication and so on. We also know that Dr. Ross was the Psychologist for the WAU.. wait what? Why does an A.I need a psychologist? I didnt get that the first 2 Playthroughs and in the 3 tried to fit Ross in the Story that makes Sense. Why does a A.I need a Psychologist. And then it hit me when running around in Theta where all the scans and rooms of the ppl are.
Remember in Theta where you can watch Simons Brain scans and Catherine explain that Simon is a Legacy scan and they used that as ground structures for A.I's? Yes you guessed right now. Simons Scan and therefore his mind is in the WAU. To what extend is beyond me but he is the coolprint for the WAU therefore it makes sense why the WAU did build him and helps him through the entire game to reach the Ark.
Thats also the reason he can link to the WAU without the WAU taking over and actually heal him.
Remember at Omikron where you cant find the code to release the quarantine from the station and then it magically appears in the system and Simon says why he thinks someone wants them to get inside? Everyone who could write codes is dead!
The WAU did that.
Or inside TAU where you cant open the Room of Dr. Ross and magically the code appears already written in the terminal when you took the ARK from Lindmann? Again the WAU did that.
The WAU also constantly called the last Human Lindmann over the Terminal instead of forcing its way inside so that she growed tired of blocking the calls.
At Omikron you get caught by a WAU made Creature and get put inside the with Structure Gel build substance on the Wall where so many ppl are stuck inside. They are all alive. And Simon wakes up in a virtual reality of his personal heaven. Reunited with his Ashley but near his physical body something explodes and the connection is lost and Simon free again.
Those Prototypes of Androids are used by WAU to accomplish certain tasks. Like catch ppl and put them into the structure gel to give them the Lucid Dream as Akers calls it. The WAU needs to preserve HUMAN life no matter the costs. Whoever is interfering with that gets killed and then later collected for making one of those monsters. To ensure the safety of the WAU and its directive.
3. The Lie about the Coin Toss. There is no Coin Toss. Catherine knows that and is simply lying to Simon. But why? If Simon finds out how its working he wont help her. Thats why.
When Simon (the Human) made his scan his life continued till the day he died.
Simon 2 had the memory of the scan and experienced continuity! For him its like his mind jumped into his new body because he has the memory of Simon as Human and he woke up in the Chair at Ypsilon.
When they are at Omikron to prepare a new scan Simon 2 says after the scan "Catherine can't you run a diagnose or something" While Simon 3 has all the memorys of the original Simon and of Simon 2 he actually believes that his mind jumped over 2 times now.
Simon 3 experienced continuity. Despite the fact he just exists for a few seconds he has the memory of him being scanned 2 times now and therefore actually believes his mind is what gets transported.
When Simon 3 asks Catherine how could Simon 2 still talking she explained that his mind gets copied and that he not "magically just traveld over to the new body" Simon 3 ignores that completely and replies "there can't be 2 Simons" and later suggests its better to kill Simon 2 which is literally impossible. All you can do is discharge his battery but when you recharge it he starts again from where you left him.
Simon 4 on the ARK experience also Continuity but the difference here is he actually has the Memorys of Simon (the human) and his scan. Simon 2 and his Scan to become Simon 3 and from Simon 3 to Simon 4 inside the Ark. So to him his mind actually jumped 4 times and so he believes he won the coin toss 4 times in a row. He does not realize any of the other Simons left behind.
3. Why does the WAU wants ROSS Body and why does ROSS tell you to kill the WAU? Yes the Talking Monster at Alpha is actually Ross and not Akers (checked by searching the audio files of SOMA) and thats where the whole thing started to make sense to me. The WAU can track everyone trough the Black Boxes in everyones head and controlls the self made Monsters that are based of humans with the Black Boxes inside their heads.
The WAU doesnt kill Ross but a giant fish does that is compromised by the leaking Structure Gel everywhere which the WAU has no controll over and while the ppl of Omikron find Ross body and take him back to their station the WAU reads Ross recordings of his plans to kill the WAU.
You find evidence that the WAU wants Ross body back or at least tries to reach it? It could use any dead body for a new monster why does it want Ross?
Ross and Lindmann are the only Humans that managed to shut down their blackboxes thats why. And since Ross Body is full of structure Gel that the WAU has no controll over it has to destroy it before worse happens.
While sending Electromagnetic impulses (EMP) to try to track everyone it can't find Ross nor Lindemann or the ARK at all.
The WAU with no more options to defend itself does the only possible thing left. Overload the Black Boxes in ppls heads to ensure its own safety! Lindemann is the only survivor of that attack.
Ross body who got killed by the Giant Fish is filled with structure gel but since his black box is shut down the WAU has no controll over him and he starts whispering to Simon to ensure someone kills the WAU. Ross maybe died and maybe he didn't all that remains certain is that he looks like a Monster and still holds on his plan to kill it.
4. But who whisperd then to Akers and made him go insane?
That was also my one million dollar Question.
But if you think about it for a moment it totally makes sense that its the WAU. Sure the Wau never whispers since it can't talk and only Ross is the one who whispers to Simon or talks in any way i still believe its not Ross.
Akers is isolated for a very long time and the evacuation of delta is shortly after the impact of the comet and shorty after the WAU gets self aware and mixed with the Structure gel. It still is learning and Ross is still documenting the progress of the WAU.
The Wau already working on the Vivarium and the Virtual reality and playes chess with Akers since he is isolated from the Rest its an oppurtunity for the WAU to learn about the human psychology under huge stress. Remember its a Self aware A.I or in this case a Stationwide A.I and of course it starts to self improve.
When Akers sleeps the WAU tries to send information to his blackbox and tell him about the lucid dream (virtuall reality) and the Vivarium and what he would think about living there instead of his reality now. With Isolation and his dreams Akers snaps and completely go nuts ripping his eyes out and babbling about how everyone has to sleep and that he will help his new master. Injecting 4 ppl at Delta with structure Gel which leads to 3 dead and 1 surviving and still breating and dreaming victim when simon arrives at delta.
5. Why is the WAU making Simon i mean building his Body and load his scan inside the body?
The WAU's main goal is to ensure the surviving of human life or humanity at all. It doesn't think that a human without a body is not human anymore. Since Lindemann can't be tracked and doesn't answer calls from the WAU it needs someone who goes there and ensures the ARK gets launched.
Shortly before simon reaches Catherines Robot a Monster shows up infecting not only the Robot of Catherine but her chip.
Remember what i said in the begining? Ross and Sarang made sure the WAU gets full Access to everything which lead to ppl shut out, turned off or blocked communication or heads who blow up.
Catherine sure is good but i highly doubt she can bybass a KI like the WAU if the WAU doesn't want her and Simon to go to specific areas.
To me after the 5 playtrough its obvious that its the WAU that needs Simon and Catherine to find the ARK and Lindemann to ensure the ARK gets into Space.
Last but not least. Kill the WAU or not? To me its the "Don't kill the WAU" option because i would ensure everyone who is still in the Lucid dream and kept alive by the wau would die when i do that.
Also the Wau itself never was agressive towards Simon and if you replay the game you will realise that all the WAU is doing is keeping ppl alive.
Thanks to everyone who endured to this point and read all of my nonsense that maybe doesnt even make sense since its 02:13 am where i live and i probably made alot of logic failures because im really tired right know but i wanted to finish it
What you think is valid and what not? Let me know and happy discussion
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Fortigurn - 09-30-2015
I think this is excellently written, and I disagree with all of it.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Omnitool - 09-30-2015
(09-30-2015, 01:13 AM)Yggalf Wrote: First of all i wanna say a big Thank you to Frictional Games for making this game. I replayed the game now 5 times and still try to put the Story puzzles together
In my playtroughs i realized many things that others can either verify or disprove however i thought they are worth discussing so i will mention them. And i will mention quite alot.
Also i must apologize for the length of this post but it actually needs a lot of explanation since the story is way more complex then it would look like in the first place.
1. Is Simon just dreaming all that?
Well it could be since all the way from his apartment to Dr. Munshi indicates that.
Near his bed he has 2 posters. One is showing a man in a divesuit under water and the other poster showing Space!
In his night box is a book about a horror story with *Black Tentacles* in the water that hunt humans to pull them under water.
Near his TV is a DVD about a guy who has to fight everything to save the world. Sounds familiar?
The user interface of Simons PC is the same as everywhere in Pathos 2. I find it hard to believe that nothing changed in 100 years.
The user interface at Dr. Munshis lab is the same as Simons or in Pathos 2.
Simon has to search for a 4 digit code to enter that code to open the door that leads to Dr. Munshi.
In Pathos 2 Simon also has to search for 4 digit codes to open Doors.
His way to Dr. Munshi is with the Subway where he sees a blonde woman. A homeless guy who talks to himself and black man in a suit.
A Blonde Woman who looks very much like the Women from the subway is the first interviewed person about the arc by catherine as seen at lambda.
A Black Guy who looks very much like the Blacman from the Subway is covered in WAU structure at TAU and holding a picture of his son and sleep talking about his dream.
Do i believe Simon is dreaming all that? No. But can i ignore all that either? Also no. To me its simply because his brain already had to suffer from severe damage that his scanned mind simply tries to find it easier to not go insane by visualy lying to Simon.
It would even make more sense since we saw when Simon feared drowning how his human looking hands changed to the dive suit hands.
Also when you first use your flashlight he doesn't understand whats happening and simply says "Where did i get a flashlight" and still not realize that his hands don't hold anything or where used in the process of turning this light on.
Like Catherine explained to Simon on the way to Theta he found a balance between insanity and ignorance to not go nuts about not being human anymore.
Further evidence to support the dream theory is that Simon worked in a comic book store, so reading comics about robots / cyborgs etc could have been a foundation for the dream, like the posters, books and DVD in his appartment.
Simon was also known to experience vivid nightmares frequently after the car crash, and was prescribed medicine to supress these nightmares.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Yggalf - 09-30-2015
(09-30-2015, 09:07 AM)Fortigurn Wrote: I think this is excellently written, and I disagree with all of it.
Well Thanks! You can disagree with some of my post but you can't disagree with all of it since some points are game given facts.
As some Examples
The Vivarium is the Blueprint for the ARK!
The Coin toss is a lie and only a imagination of the copied minds who experience continuity!
Simon is to ignorant/insane to realize that his mind won't travel to his new body or the ARK!
The WAU is only interested in saving human life regardless of how and put them into the lucid dream whenever possible.
However HOW some of the Events happend is only my speculation but the key Elements are given facts i can't change by the game itself.
(09-30-2015, 11:49 AM)AlterVision Wrote: Further evidence to support the dream theory is that Simon worked in a comic book store, so reading comics about robots / cyborgs etc could have been a foundation for the dream, like the posters, books and DVD in his appartment.
Simon was also known to experience vivid nightmares frequently after the car crash, and was prescribed medicine to supress these nightmares.
I thought that also but wasn't sure if i should take it into consideration since the only nightmare we can witness is audio only and therefore leaves to much room for interpretation.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Fortigurn - 09-30-2015
(09-30-2015, 12:40 PM)Yggalf Wrote: Well Thanks! You can disagree with some of my post but you can't disagree with all of it since some points are game given facts.
Yeah I was exaggerating for effect.
Quote:The Coin toss is a lie and only a imagination of the copied minds who experience continuity!
I think people are misunderstanding the concept of the coin toss. Catherine wasn't saying that when you transfer it's a matter of chance as to whether you're the one which gets transferred or the one which gets left behind, as if that's determined by a toss of the choin at that very moment. She's saying that the situation every copy is in, is a matter of chance; that's just how things worked out.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - humanoid - 09-30-2015
(09-30-2015, 01:36 PM)Fortigurn Wrote: I think people are misunderstanding the concept of the coin toss.
From my understanding the "coin toss" is something that just doesn't really exist, or rather was made up by Simon (iirc Catherine never brought it up) to cope with something that he doesn't (want to) understand.
Because if you were to make a copy of yourself you're effectively creating a new being.
This being might have all your thoughts and memories up to the point of the brain scan/copy that thinks its you but the original you would always remain in your body and not magically transferred by chance to the new body.
In other words, Simon-1 would remain Simon-1, Simon-2 would remain Simon-2 and so on.
And this effectively leads to the major question that this game brings up, what can be considered human and what can't?
Is the copied you still a human being or just a simulation, an AI constructed by the data of your brain?
If it is human, what about the problem that there are now 2 (or more) of you, each thinking that he is the "real" you, would it be "human" for both to exist?
The "coin toss" analogy only makes somewhat sense if you keep in mind that you're playing a video game where the camera decides what you're experiencing and of course you can't play two characters at once.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Omnitool - 10-08-2015
(09-30-2015, 12:40 PM)Yggalf Wrote:(09-30-2015, 11:49 AM)AlterVision Wrote: Further evidence to support the dream theory is that Simon worked in a comic book store, so reading comics about robots / cyborgs etc could have been a foundation for the dream, like the posters, books and DVD in his appartment.
Simon was also known to experience vivid nightmares frequently after the car crash, and was prescribed medicine to supress these nightmares.
I thought that also but wasn't sure if i should take it into consideration since the only nightmare we can witness is audio only and therefore leaves to much room for interpretation.
Another interesting thing is that Mark Sarang's room in Theta is very similar to Simon's appartment regarding its content:
- Both Simon and Sarang have a book about human counciousness.
- Sarang's room is the only one in the entire game where you find a recording device similar to an old telephone answering machine, containing an audio recording. Simon's room also has a telephine answering machine, where you can play a message.
- Both Simon and Sarang have posters with planets on the walls of their rooms.
Also, Sarang believed in continuity, a fact which Simon practically experienced after he was scanned for the first time.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - Googolplex - 10-15-2015
Story is a masterpiece, but AMFP story was even better. But what SOMA did quite perfect is the way how the story get told.
RE: Story is a Masterpiece (Massive Spoilers very long) - PiratesFr33k - 10-16-2015
(09-30-2015, 01:13 AM)Yggalf Wrote: Catherine sure is good but i highly doubt she can bybass a KI like the WAU
Ah, so you're German!
