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+--- Thread: Sugestion regarding piracy (/thread-4424.html)
Sugestion regarding piracy - Licaon_Kter - 09-16-2010
You can limit the damage a bit by not offering support to pirates.
You could make a system that links the forum account to the game keys ( The Witcher forums implement such a system yet is not used to its fullest potential; and you can filter those known pirated keys too ) and add a simple icon near the avatar, say a Amnesia icon, a Penumbra: Overture one, etc. But, when a forum user comes to get some help s/he will not get any official help unless his/her account has the game registered.
Thoughts?
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - superluser - 09-16-2010
So whenever anyone posts here, we can all decide whether a person is a good citizen of the Nation of Frictonia based on whether she has purchased all of the games? That's rather extreme for just dealing with piracy. What if that person thinks that one of the games looks too scary and decides not to play it? Does she have to buy a copy in order to keep the forum from looking down on her?
You could set up a bugzilla site and tie that to the activation codes. I'm not sure I like the idea, but that would accomplish what you want to accomplish without the chilling effect that your proposal would have on discussions in these forums.
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - Licaon_Kter - 09-16-2010
(09-16-2010, 02:32 PM)superluser Wrote: So whenever anyone posts here, we can all decide whether a person is a good citizen of the Nation of Frictonia based on whether she has purchased all of the games?If one did not buy Penumbra why does s/he post here saying that s/he problems running it? If one did not buy Amnesia why does s/he post here saying that s/he problems running it?
I did not say anything about buying all games or something.
(09-16-2010, 02:32 PM)superluser Wrote: What if that person thinks that one of the games looks too scary and decides not to play it?I'm strictly speaking about Tech Support. Such a person can freely post and interact in all the other sub-forums.
(09-16-2010, 02:32 PM)superluser Wrote: Does she have to buy a copy in order to keep the forum from looking down on her?If s/he does not play it s/he has no need to ask here for help regarding technical issues and the devs don't invest time in helping him/her. I won't look down on anyone, I play FG games on 30 minute play sessions since they scare me, so who am i to judge.
(09-16-2010, 02:32 PM)superluser Wrote: You could set up a bugzilla site and tie that to the activation codes. I'm not sure I like the idea, but that would accomplish what you want to accomplish without the chilling effect that your proposal would have on discussions in these forums.What chilling effect? Is that the chilling effect when you read some user asking for help on running the game although s/he "stole" the game? That's the effect that I don't like either.
When buying the game one bought the right to get tech support here, my idea is simple: only FG client deserve tech support.
Cheers
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - Yuhaney - 09-16-2010
Most likely Frictional Games ask where the original poster bought his copy.
Since there are so many different versions (at least for Penumbra), that all of them have different patches etc., so they won't work the same way.
Idea is good, but making it happen would be painful to do.
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - Licaon_Kter - 09-16-2010
Added a poll too.
(09-16-2010, 04:26 PM)Scraper Wrote: Idea is good, but making it happen would be painful to do.Yes it is but if it saves some dev time that can be used elsewhere ( like having a piña colada or bug testing patch 1.01 ) I think it's worthy.
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - superluser - 09-16-2010
You can also make the counterargument that finding bugs in pirated copies helps make the paid copies more stable, as well. It's not a particularly strong argument, but it is an argument.
Also, depending on what the resolution of the issue is, you may be unable to apply the solution to the pirated copy. Users who are unsure if they will be unable to apply a patch may decide not to seek resolution of technical issues.
(09-16-2010, 03:09 PM)Licaon_Kter Wrote: What chilling effect? Is that the chilling effect when you read some user asking for help on running the game although s/he "stole" the game? That's the effect that I don't like either.
The chilling effect that comes when you have the cool forum members who have bought all Frictional's games, and then the social rejects who only liked Penumbra and decided not to go for Amnesia (or vice versa), and the fact that it is immediately identifiable which group someone is in at all times beside every message. Or interlopers who don't have any of the games (either pair or pirated) but still want to participate in the discussions here. Now they get routinely accused of piracy. Awesome.
(09-16-2010, 04:26 PM)Scraper Wrote: Idea is good, but making it happen would be painful to do.
Here's the best reason not to. Moderator doesn't want to do it.
(Could you add a poll option for ``Pirates don't deserve technical support, but it would involve too much time and effort to keep pirates from obtaining it and thus the overhead in keeping them out. The overhead from keeping them out outweighs the time spent fixing their problems which would improve the experience for paid users and the community offense they might generate if they began taking an aggressive stance against piracy''?)
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - Adeno - 09-16-2010
The idea might work on a tech support system that relies on phone calls. On the internet, not so. The difference is this. When calling a company for tech support on a product, say your copy of Autodesk 3DS Max has a glitch or something and you have an assignment for the company that you have to finish before a nearing deadline, you are personally in touch with the other guy whose job is to provide quick and precise answers in dealing with your solution. They'll check your account information and license, and then get on with helping you. Even though a lot of companies still employ this call for support system, they have also expanded into having forums that everybody else can join in, with or without a license. Why would they open up a forum with tech support where anybody can just join in, whether they be pirates or actual customers, and seek help? The answer lies in the next part, the reality of customer service in a highly globalized interconnected world.
We now have the internet where people can share information of all sorts. Whether you're a PC user or a MAC user, everyone can share their knowledge about certain matters. People have different types of machines and of course, configurations. Ideally, a company's tech support group should be able to answer all questions and provide answers to problems to the customers who bought their products. They made the product, they should know what makes or breaks it right? Wrong. Because of the reality that a lot of people have different hardware, software, and many more variables involved in their computer system, it is very hard to narrow down as to what causes a problem for a person, when another customer is not having the same problem on a similar computer set up. This is where knowledge from everyone who decides to try to help come into play.
A tech support group has a limited budget in finding out and providing solutions to customers with all sorts of computer setups. Trying to simulate each and every setup that a customer has for his system is just very costly and sometimes ineffective. There are problems that cannot be solved simply by uninstalling and reinstalling the product and updating to the latest drivers of the hardware and programs that you have. With the help of random people who have the same interest with your product, there is a higher chance that the problem will eventually be solved by some ingenious method proposed by one of the forum users. Sometimes, people will discover problems with your software that you wouldn't have otherwise found. By discovering and reporting the problems, you will have an idea as to where your software fails and where you can improve it.
Having an open tech support forum is not only beneficial to the real customers (and the occasional pirate), but it actually helps the developers and tech support group themselves by getting FREE bug reports as well as solutions to what could have otherwise cost them thousands of dollars just to solve for one customer with a unique problem.
That's my take on the matter
Oh yeah, whenever I'm reading forums about a game I'm interested in buying and someone has a problem that I've encountered with another game, sometimes I pop in to suggest a solution that worked for me. Sometimes it works for them, too.
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - Licaon_Kter - 09-16-2010
(09-16-2010, 05:19 PM)superluser Wrote: You can also make the counterargument that finding bugs in pirated copies helps make the paid copies more stable, as well. It's not a particularly strong argument, but it is an argument.Ok, so why don't you make some game that you want to sell and me + my 10000 friends will find bugs for you, but you give us a free copy first, deal? Or better yet why not ask the FG devs why they did not do just that?
(09-16-2010, 05:19 PM)superluser Wrote: Also, depending on what the resolution of the issue is, you may be unable to apply the solution to the pirated copy. Users who are unsure if they will be unable to apply a patch may decide not to seek resolution of technical issues.I hope, it's a good thing that pirates are deterred to seek help from a dev they did not pay to help them in the first place. Everyone should get help from their game provider, either game dev or warez release group.
(09-16-2010, 05:19 PM)superluser Wrote: The chilling effect that comes when you have the cool forum members who have bought all Frictional's games, and then the social rejects who only liked Penumbra and decided not to go for Amnesia (or vice versa), and the fact that it is immediately identifiable which group someone is in at all times beside every message.You keep pressing with this, i'll reiterate: I don't care if someone liked Penumbra but not Amnesia, or the other way around, if they did not pirate the game they can talk until their keyboards break. This has nothing to do anything, better yet, make that icon viewable only by moderators/devs, and new tech threads by pirates get silenced or don't get any dev attention ( until a valid key is aquired anyway ).
(09-16-2010, 05:19 PM)superluser Wrote: Or interlopers who don't have any of the games (either pair or pirated) but still want to participate in the discussions here. Now they get routinely accused of piracy.Do you agree that advising someone to update their video drivers and helping someone pass a tricky game section are two different things? I did advise people on many forums on stuff i did not have on my system, some stuff i might know might help them but it can be tricky for a casual gamer who knows only to click on that game icon to clean registry, to update their PhysX driver, to LD_PRELOAD some libs, to chmod some files, etc.
(09-16-2010, 05:19 PM)superluser Wrote: Here's the best reason not to. Moderator doesn't want to do it.He did not say that, he said something different.
(09-16-2010, 06:48 PM)Adeno Wrote: We now have the internet where people can share information of all sorts.Yep i know, that makes 2 points:
1. like i said above, random people might have a trick under their sleeves that might help you even if they did not buy or pirate the game, that's ok, but general info is one thing while specific info that one could not obtain unless one has the game is something different.
2. pirates will use the open info to fix their game, ok, that's the nature of the medium
My proposal treats only the help that the devs give, normal users are free to talk, my only concern is that of the dev time that is abused by pirates.
BTW, could you please read this: http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2010/09/one-week-after-release-of-amnesia.html and then comment this there:
Quote:Dear FG devs, it does not matter that plenty of users did not buy the game and yet they play it, just think about all the FREE bug reports as well as solutions that could have otherwise cost you thousands of dollars just to solve for one customer with an unique problem.I'm sure they'll be thrilled that you opened they eyes.
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - SHODANFreeman - 09-16-2010
So if someone buys on Steam or elsewhere, they're chopped liver?
RE: Sugestion regarding piracy - kuato - 09-16-2010
theres some kind of api for websites to check what steam games u got like garrysmod.org does