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Something frictional games should do in next games. - Shev - 12-21-2010
They should make the monsters able to follow you to other area's if they see you.
I mean so far all I had to do was outrun the monster to the door at the end, and I'd be fine. Now if the monster could follow me to that area, I'd probably be fucked (through the door, not just spawning somewhere randomly in the next area)
Theres also a lot of other things like this that make the game a bit less scary.
edit: Like how you can just stare at a wall, and the monsters would go away. I mean the stealth needs a bit of work. Its good, but not perfect and needs a little tweak.
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - DIGI Byte - 12-21-2010
well actually, its the level designers decision, the same monster might not be able to "follow" you technically, but the level designer can create a new monster behind the door if they wish
and yes the stealth and insanity in amnesia ain't perfect, they need work
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - Shev - 12-21-2010
(12-21-2010, 08:15 AM)DIGI Byte Wrote: well actually, its the level designers decision, the same monster might not be able to "follow" you technically, but the level designer can create a new monster behind the door if they wish
and yes the stealth and insanity in amnesia ain't perfect, they need work
or they can program the AI so that the monsters are smart enough to use doors, and do a area transition with them like how they do with a player. They do it in oblivion, and countless other games, it doesn't have to be a level design.
So if they see a player use a area transition, they should be smart enough to follow.
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - DIGI Byte - 12-21-2010
(12-21-2010, 08:30 AM)Shev Wrote: or they can program the AI so that the monsters are smart enough to use doors, and do a area transition with them like how they do with a player. They do it in oblivion, and countless other games, it doesn't have to be a level design.
So if they see a player use a area transition, they should be smart enough to follow.
I wanna slap you, its down to level design, not AI coding...
in fact AI coding doesn't even DO that stuff
and it would ruin the game if they did follow you, if you don't believe me then why don't you ask everyone else? because no-one else is making posts about it
just... no.
in games like oblivion its ok cause its a 'world' game and really... I've played lots of games and I've only ever seen it in 2 games, so don't say its like the 'in thing'
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - Shev - 12-21-2010
(12-21-2010, 09:09 AM)DIGI Byte Wrote:(12-21-2010, 08:30 AM)Shev Wrote: or they can program the AI so that the monsters are smart enough to use doors, and do a area transition with them like how they do with a player. They do it in oblivion, and countless other games, it doesn't have to be a level design.
So if they see a player use a area transition, they should be smart enough to follow.
I wanna slap you, its down to level design, not AI coding...
in fact AI coding doesn't even DO that stuff
and it would ruin the game if they did follow you, if you don't believe me then why don't you ask everyone else? because no-one else is making posts about it
just... no.
in games like oblivion its ok cause its a 'world' game and really... I've played lots of games and I've only ever seen it in 2 games, so don't say its like the 'in thing'
Actually no. Its not level design at all.
If it where level design that'd mean you'd have to individually code each door so that it'd spawn the same monster from the previous level that was following you, under the conditions that it saw you, and was following you. And just imagine how bad that would be in oblivion. Do you have any idea how many fucking doors are in oblivion? Theres a lot.
But its not. The game is smart enough to know that you went through a area transition. The monster follows you through the area transition by using it itself. Some area transitions wouldn't be usable though by monsters like the hole you dig in the dungeon. This is probably wrong, but I'm pretty sure in the AI mindset it would work like this.
It would ruin the game? How exactly? I mean if a monster is chasing you, why should it be unable to chase you through the next area. I mean, would that make the game too scary or something because the monsters actually have common sense? I don't see the conflict here. Or is there some magical ward on all the monsters that keep them from entering area, that I somehow missed when going through the story, I don't see what the problem here is.
Unless you misunderstood me, so I'll clarify just to be careful and not start a flamewar over miscommunication:
If a monster see's you and is chasing you, it should be able to follow you to the other area. Not just follow you because you went through the area transition, strictly if it sees and is chasing you. This will prevent using the ability to just use area transitions to easily evade enemies by just using a area transition which could probably be a flaw in the game itself.
Also I'll add this part:
If the monster can't find you in the other area or you lose track of it, it'll just return to its own one.
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - Spooder Wekd - 12-22-2010
(12-21-2010, 09:09 AM)DIGI Byte Wrote:(12-21-2010, 08:30 AM)Shev Wrote: or they can program the AI so that the monsters are smart enough to use doors, and do a area transition with them like how they do with a player. They do it in oblivion, and countless other games, it doesn't have to be a level design.
So if they see a player use a area transition, they should be smart enough to follow.
I wanna slap you, its down to level design, not AI coding...
in fact AI coding doesn't even DO that stuff
Hey, you! Yea you! MORON! Okay? You do not make games. AI WOULD be the place to put that! I make games. AI is not like some separate part of the code. It is the parts of the code that control the enemies. So CODE that would control the enemies, allowing them to go through a freaking door would be AI! That is how it would work. I have not seen the HPL engine code but it would be in the if statement for the monster chasing the character.IE the check to see if the monster is alerted. A nested if would be placed to see if the player activates a door. This then starts a timer after the level loads and then spawns the appropriate enemy, already in it's alerted state. You have no idea what you are talking about, and I'm sorry, but I hate people pretending to know about game design when they have no idea. It gets tiring....
edit: Oh i see Shev got to it before me, ah well. Good on ya shev.
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - DIGI Byte - 12-22-2010
I know what I said, its not down to AI its more on the source code, but its mainly down to level design as well
and AI isn't the only code controlling NPC's and AI would only dictate if its chasing the player or not... not actually control where the monster comes from
I mean level designs they would have to compensate and add spawn locations and a previous room for them to spawn from, or are they just going not fade in next to the player?
and monster chasing is a bad idea, i've been in game design for 3 years, monster chasing is a bad idea for most games
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - Spooder Wekd - 12-22-2010
(12-22-2010, 01:26 AM)DIGI Byte Wrote: I know what I said, its not down to AI its more on the source code, but its mainly down to level design as well
and AI isn't the only code controlling NPC's and AI would only dictate if its chasing the player or not... not actually control where the monster comes from
I mean level designs they would have to compensate and add spawn locations and a previous room for them to spawn from, or are they just going not fade in next to the player?
Dude, STOP! You lost. AI is ANY CODE THAT CONTROLS NPCs. It is not just some function hidden away. As you describe it "just whether its chasing you or not" that is one variable, an if statement, and a path finding algorithm (with some other stuff I wont get into) AI is more than that, going through a door can be done in code, the whole thing is the source code, even the AI! No spawn point is needed, just use the door's X, Y, and Z values to set an object of the appropriate class. You have no damned idea what you are talking about.
Edit: You do not design games, if you do, you DEFINITELY are not a coder.
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - Shev - 12-22-2010
Well technically he probably could do it through the level editor buuuttt....
That would be extremely time consuming to do it with each door, create a lot of headaches, probably be really buggy, and just plain inefficient.
Its possibly he has a slight grasp on coding, its probably just a slight one though. Like making mods for a game engine/toolset/leveleditor/etc with very limited freedom on what you can/can't do.
RE: Something frictional games should do in next games. - Spooder Wekd - 12-22-2010
(12-22-2010, 04:29 AM)Shev Wrote: Well technically he probably could do it through the level editor buuuttt....
That would be extremely time consuming to do it with each door, create a lot of headaches, probably be really buggy, and just plain inefficient.
Its possibly he has a slight grasp on coding, its probably just a slight one though. Like making mods for a game engine/toolset/leveleditor/etc with very limited freedom on what you can/can't do.
Actually you cannot have enemies follow you using just a level editor, because there would be no way to only spawn an enemy if it is chasing you, you need to bust open the source code and write the AI for it. And I see what you're saying, but being a videogame programmer myself, I can tell he has no idea what he is talking about, he didn't even realize AI is in the source code, which anyone with even like a 5 minute youtube tutorial worth of programming knowledge would know. Maybe he knew a little but was just a moron...