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+--- Thread: Some game limitations seem too artificial (/thread-6354.html)
Some game limitations seem too artificial - texter - 01-23-2011
First of, I'd like to congratulate the dev team with brilliant work done, and well-deserved success. Thumbs up!
My point is (having long-time gaming background) that the main character (Daniel) is way too limited in his actions to the point he is perceived as literally lame (plus he faints too often, and has problem standing on his feet). I think you slightly went off balance mechanics-wise, having imposed constraints TOO severe (and at times absurdly artificial in the existing premise) for this kind of gameplay to be 100% engaging.
Some limitations in the game are so artificial they border on absurdity. That concerns the character's inability to carry around light sources, like candles and torches (while other objects CAN be effectively carried around), and his inability (or unwillingness) to at least TRY fighting.
I think you should have at least given the player a possibility to fend off monsters, at least to give it a try. Simply to say 'resistance is futile' does not justify his inability to pick up a torch or a stick and wave it in front of the foe's nose, no matter how scared you think the character should be of that monster. Because you think that, not the player.
You shold give him a chance to fight, while limiting his chances to succeed, rather than force him (completely artificially in this case) to abandon all hope.
I mean, it's not a point'n'click adventure game, right? If you introduce physics in the game, and the player CAN throw objects around, why in the world can he not use them to fend off monsters that are attacking him? Okay, you say "Daniel is too scared to fight". Excuse me, I'm not Daniel, and I may be scared just a tad less. And since I can force Daniel's feet to walk and his hands to pick and throw objects, why can't I force him to try and attack something with those objects?
And while we're at it, if there are lit candles on the table, WHY can I not pick them up and light the way? That's blatantly artificial, if you ask me. The same goes for a full can of oil that burns out in like - what, 3 minutes?
Come on. You can do better than that.Just wanted to make my point.
Cheers, and respect.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - Tottel - 01-23-2011
Giving the character the ability to try and defend themselves against 'monsters' is what the devs did in Penumbra. You had the means to swing a pickaxe, and because of that, loads of players thought you were supposed to kill the monsters instead of trying to hide from them.
I think they did a good job on making you completely harmless. The only thing I think when I have been spotted by a monster in Amnesia, is: "OH GODDDDD, RUNNNNN!"
It works for me.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - Taikutsu - 01-23-2011
Heard from my friends that it's possible to throw objects at the creatures, such as a barrel.
It will make them stumble but won't effectively kill them. Surely that counts for something right?
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - texter - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 01:40 PM)Tottel Wrote: in Penumbra. You had the means to swing a pickaxe, and because of that, loads of players thought you were supposed to kill the monsters instead of trying to hide from them.Well, you can effectively demostrate the futility of attack. For example, the moment you swing your weapon at the monster, he lashes at you with double speed\strength, rendering you defenceless and down on the floor. Probably Penumbra didn't properly show the player the non-necessity to fight.
(01-23-2011, 01:53 PM)Taikutsu Wrote: Heard from my friends that it's possible to throw objects at the creatures, such as a barrel.Ok, why throwing a barrel or a chair is an option while swinging it is not?
It will make them stumble but won't effectively kill them. Surely that counts for something right?
Still the main inconsistency for me in this game is not being able to carry candles and torches, while you CAN carry this super-oil-hungry lantern. By the way, a lit match is also a source of light. Very short lived too.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - Zoridium JackL - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 01:53 PM)Taikutsu Wrote: Heard from my friends that it's possible to throw objects at the creatures, such as a barrel.
It will make them stumble but won't effectively kill them. Surely that counts for something right?
this is true, and really, you aren't meant to fight the creatures, your not even supposed to want to fight them, the only artificial limitation that actually is sorta ridiculous, is the candle thing, but i can live with that, it's better than having the all powerful glowstick that wards of the shadows with infinite ease, and lets be honest, if one of those things came charging out at you, and you were in a place you don't remember, would you honestly try to hit it? i mean, c'mon, how stupid would that be, you don't know how strong they are, and you don't have to abandon all hope, just throw some objects at it and put as many walls and doors between you, that is how you fight, that is also a more likely reaction to a monster, as opposed to run up and glass the mutha...
(01-23-2011, 02:06 PM)texter Wrote:(01-23-2011, 01:40 PM)Tottel Wrote: in Penumbra. You had the means to swing a pickaxe, and because of that, loads of players thought you were supposed to kill the monsters instead of trying to hide from them.Well, you can effectively demostrate the futility of attack. For example, the moment you swing your weapon at the monster, he lashes at you with double speed\strength, rendering you defenceless and down on the floor. Probably Penumbra didn't properly show the player the non-necessity to fight.
(01-23-2011, 01:53 PM)Taikutsu Wrote: Heard from my friends that it's possible to throw objects at the creatures, such as a barrel.Ok, why throwing a barrel or a chair is an option while swinging it is not?
It will make them stumble but won't effectively kill them. Surely that counts for something right?
Still the main inconsistency for me in this game is not being able to carry candles and torches, while you CAN carry this super-oil-hungry lantern. By the way, a lit match is also a source of light. Very short lived too.
have you played penumbra... now think how ridiculously available light was, you had a torch with batteries seemingly sprinkled everywhere for easter eggs, and a glowstick that literally NEVER ran out, that, and a lot of areas where lit by light's anywhay so you didn't need them half the time, plus at the beginning, you could light torches with a lighter... i prefer the less light option to lights everywhere.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - kailip - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 02:06 PM)texter Wrote: Ok, why throwing a barrel or a chair is an option while swinging it is not?
Because this is not your game
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - Zoridium JackL - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 02:15 PM)kailip Wrote:(01-23-2011, 02:06 PM)texter Wrote: Ok, why throwing a barrel or a chair is an option while swinging it is not?
Because this is not your game
acctualy, it doesn't matter whether or not ot's his game, because you can swing stuff at them, you simply grab it, and then swing it at them until you make a conection, but at that range it really is futile... see, your fighting is there, and it's just as futile as you want it.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - mrmOU - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 01:19 PM)texter Wrote: Some limitations in the game are so artificial they border on absurdity.
This is true in probably over 90 percent of the games on the market today. RPG games allow a character to carry far more loot than what is possible in real life, FPS games allow their characters to carry several big weapons at the same time. Granted, those things are not really limitations, but they are basic staples in gaming that make them just that...games.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - Zoridium JackL - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 05:36 PM)mrmOU Wrote:(01-23-2011, 01:19 PM)texter Wrote: Some limitations in the game are so artificial they border on absurdity.
This is true in probably over 90 percent of the games on the market today. RPG games allow a character to carry far more loot than what is possible in real life, FPS games allow their characters to carry several big weapons at the same time. Granted, those things are not really limitations, but they are basic staples in gaming that make them just that...games.
more like every game ever made, tell me one game that didn't limit me from doing anything i want... just 1.
RE: Some game limitations seem too artificial - Sexbad - 01-23-2011
(01-23-2011, 10:24 PM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:(01-23-2011, 05:36 PM)mrmOU Wrote:(01-23-2011, 01:19 PM)texter Wrote: Some limitations in the game are so artificial they border on absurdity.
This is true in probably over 90 percent of the games on the market today. RPG games allow a character to carry far more loot than what is possible in real life, FPS games allow their characters to carry several big weapons at the same time. Granted, those things are not really limitations, but they are basic staples in gaming that make them just that...games.
more like every game ever made, tell me one game that didn't limit me from doing anything i want... just 1.
Saints Row 2, Minecraft