Is the collaboration with TCR good or bad?

[Oink]

The teaser trailer got me quite excited. With that said, I do think games should have gameplay. It's fine if someone makes games that are "art", but if you remove the gameplay from the game (like it seems they did in Dear Esther, I haven't actually played it) then I'd rather watch a movie, read a book or go to the museum to look at pottery.

You shouldn't really judge something until you've experienced it. After all, we all have different tastes.

As for the old 'gameplay' argument - that's a discussion for another thread, but ultimately - why restrict something by pigeon-holing it? What's wrong with experimenting and being different?

[Khyrpa]

You shouldn't really judge something until you've experienced it. After all, we all have different tastes.

As for the old 'gameplay' argument - that's a discussion for another thread, but ultimately - why restrict something by pigeon-holing it? What's wrong with experimenting and being different?

What does experimenting and being different give?
New experiences! Hell yes!

[spukrian]

You shouldn't really judge something until you've experienced it. After all, we all have different tastes.

As for the old 'gameplay' argument - that's a discussion for another thread, but ultimately - why restrict something by pigeon-holing it? What's wrong with experimenting and being different?

Hehe, I'm not gonna judge AAMFP before playing it, that's for sure. I might try out the Dear Esther mod, it was free IIRC.

I'm not restricting or pigeonholing anything - unless you count the fact that I like some stuff and dislike some other stuff. As for not trying Dear Esther, I feel like I've read enough opinions about the game to know what to expect from it.

There's certainly nothing wrong with experimentation and being different!

[Oink]

You shouldn't really judge something until you've experienced it. After all, we all have different tastes.

As for the old 'gameplay' argument - that's a discussion for another thread, but ultimately - why restrict something by pigeon-holing it? What's wrong with experimenting and being different?

Hehe, I'm not gonna judge AAMFP before playing it, that's for sure. I might try out the Dear Esther mod, it was free IIRC.

I'm not restricting or pigeonholing anything - unless you count the fact that I like some stuff and dislike some other stuff. As for not trying Dear Esther, I feel like I've read enough opinions about the game to know what to expect from it.

There's certainly nothing wrong with experimentation and being different!

I wouldn't form a judgement based on the original Dear Esther mod if I were you - not that it's bad, but it's very rough around the edges and isn't a patch on the far superior retail version.

[Hunter of Shadows]

Are you people even TRYING to come up with an intelligent response? You read what I posted, misinterpreted it a lot, and then verbally attacked me just because my opinion is different from yours, just because my opinion is different doesn't mean it's wrong and just because I disagree doesn't mean you're wrong either

It's entirely subjective, the OP post asked for our feelings, not for you kiddies to start flaming just because I didn't like Dear Esther or that I don't like TCR in general

Personal oppinions are stupid things to use as arguments sir, I for one loved playing through Dear Esther, and so did many others. Your argument is invalid sir.

Please re-read

I stated my own opinion of Dear Esther, and then I stated why someone saying that just because a game is 'art' it's acceptable for it to be fairly bland is stupid, just because that is an opinion does not make said opinion invalid, both sides for or against Dear Esther in the whole 'it's good or bad' have valid points

Your argument is invalid for stating that mine is invalid just because it differs from your viewpoint

Yeah sure The Chineseroom hurts AMFP's potential even when there would be no AMFP without them.

Why do you even think they feel like the gameplay of Dear Esther is good and works for survival horror? It was just an old experiment with games and storytelling.

Discussing about whats art does not belong here. My toilet is art.

AaMFP will be shit for you if you have an attitude like this.

Bullshit, Frictional could make the game without their help, to say there wouldn't be a game at all is absurd

And no, it won't be shit for me, I saw the trailer, I fully expect it to be amazing, this is just a result you NOT READING WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID

I said the potential of A Machine For Pigs won't be as great as it could have be if Frictional Games wasn't directly in charge if designing it, because they're ultimately in charge of the whole thing, it'll still be great, but it won't be as great as if they alone had designed it.

I didn't say it would be shit, or bad, or boring, or not scary, just that it wouldn't be as good as it could have been

Jesus christ

Hunter of Shadows is just bitching because he didn't like Dear Esther - the problem is that he is now assuming that just because he didn't like one game from thechineseroom that the rest will automatically suck.

No I'm not, learn to read please

And I'm SO SORRY, that it is human nature to have your perceptions of a group/company/person be colored by how you perceive their works and products, I have not been satisfied with anything TCR has ever come out with, and therefore I fully expect to be disappointed with them in the future, this is no different from how your boss at work regards you depending on the work you do.

And keep in mind, once again, I'm not saying A Machine for Pigs will be bad just because of this collaboration, FG is ultimately in charge, and that ultimately means the final product will be excellent, I'm merely saying it won't be as good as it could have been

That is of course ridiculous - using that analogy (and turning it on its head) I should, for example, love all of Ridley Scott's films (I love Alien, Blade Runner and Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut) - but I don't, many of his films suck pretty badly.

That is a horrible analogy

[Oink]

Dear Esther was incredible. I know alot of people who hated it because its not a "game". But they just do not understand the art of games. A game do not need to be fun/cool/good. What a game needs is to give the player an experience, and this is what Dear Esther does. So does Amnesia so i think it will end up great!

This here is the primary example of the stupidest argument to ever be made in favor of TCR's Dear Esther

I played Dear Esther, and it was boring as hell, I don't care if it looked good, I don't care if it had a good story(it didn't), I don't care if it's 'art'

There are many games that are art without needing to be utterly boring as fuck and having terrible gameplay mechanics, examples are Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Psychonauts, AMTDD, Silent Hill, White Night, and many others

I feel TCR's involvement with this as the key designer's can only hurt AMFP's potential, I would feel much happier about it knowing that Frictional was in charge of developing it, not TCR

Personal oppinions are stupid things to use as arguments sir, I for one loved playing through Dear Esther, and so did many others.

Your argument is invalid sir.

You fail, it's not a personal argument, I said that I disliked it, but I also said that the reason what he said was stupid, was because games can be art without needing to be entirely passive like dear esther is

When you actually feel like responding to my comments based on what I actually said, then I'll feel like having a discussion with you

Yes, it IS a personal argument - you are giving a PERSONAL opinion on why Dear Esther failed for YOU. Likewise I could give a personal opinion on why it worked for ME.

You say that Dear Esther is 'entirely passive' - okay, define 'entirely passive'. In terms of phyisically interacting with objects - then yes, it IS 'passive'. However, physical interaction isn't the be all and end all of immersion - for ME, Dear Esther was very active in other ways - visually, aurally and, most importantly, in terms of using my imagination, emotions and mental stimulation. It made me THINK. Those, for me, are the ultimate immersion and the ultimate reward.

[Traggey]

Are you people even TRYING to come up with an intelligent response? You read what I posted, misinterpreted it a lot, and then verbally attacked me just because my opinion is different from yours, just because my opinion is different doesn't mean it's wrong and just because I disagree doesn't mean you're wrong either

It's entirely subjective, the OP post asked for our feelings, not for you kiddies to start flaming just because I didn't like Dear Esther or that I don't like TCR in general

Personal oppinions are stupid things to use as arguments sir, I for one loved playing through Dear Esther, and so did many others. Your argument is invalid sir.

Please re-read

I stated my own opinion of Dear Esther, and then I stated why someone saying that just because a game is 'art' it's acceptable for it to be fairly bland is stupid, just because that is an opinion does not make said opinion invalid, both sides for or against Dear Esther in the whole 'it's good or bad' have valid points

Your argument is invalid for stating that mine is invalid just because it differs from your viewpoint

Yeah sure The Chineseroom hurts AMFP's potential even when there would be no AMFP without them.

Why do you even think they feel like the gameplay of Dear Esther is good and works for survival horror? It was just an old experiment with games and storytelling.

Discussing about whats art does not belong here. My toilet is art.

AaMFP will be shit for you if you have an attitude like this.

Bullshit, Frictional could make the game without their help, to say there wouldn't be a game at all is absurd

And no, it won't be shit for me, I saw the trailer, I fully expect it to be amazing, this is just a result you NOT READING WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID

I said the potential of A Machine For Pigs won't be as great as it could have be if Frictional Games wasn't directly in charge if designing it, because they're ultimately in charge of the whole thing, it'll still be great, but it won't be as great as if they alone had designed it.

I didn't say it would be shit, or bad, or boring, or not scary, just that it wouldn't be as good as it could have been

Jesus christ

Hunter of Shadows is just bitching because he didn't like Dear Esther - the problem is that he is now assuming that just because he didn't like one game from thechineseroom that the rest will automatically suck.

No I'm not, learn to read please

And I'm SO SORRY, that it is human nature to have your perceptions of a group/company/person be colored by how you perceive their works and products, I have not been satisfied with anything TCR has ever come out with, and therefore I fully expect to be disappointed with them in the future, this is no different from how your boss at work regards you depending on the work you do.

And keep in mind, once again, I'm not saying A Machine for Pigs will be bad just because of this collaboration, FG is ultimately in charge, and that ultimately means the final product will be excellent, I'm merely saying it won't be as good as it could have been

That is of course ridiculous - using that analogy (and turning it on its head) I should, for example, love all of Ridley Scott's films (I love Alien, Blade Runner and Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut) - but I don't, many of his films suck pretty badly.

That is a horrible analogy

I understood perfectly what you wrote sir and at no point did I claim that your viewpoint is wrong, you may think whatever the hell you wish. I merely said that you are trying to make an argument out of a personal oppinion, which is never a good thing because it can in no way be backed up or questioned by anyone else.

[Hunter of Shadows]

Stating my argument is invalid is as good as saying you think my point is wrong >_>

Regardless, ultimately it comes down to this


I wasn't really expecting to be attacked for my opinion, or be written off as someone who's just bitching or whatever, I was just stating how I feel about it all, if you can't respect that, then quite frankly bugger off

That's what I'm trying to say

[Bridge]

The teaser trailer got me quite excited. With that said, I do think games should have gameplay. It's fine if someone makes games that are "art", but if you remove the gameplay from the game (like it seems they did in Dear Esther, I haven't actually played it) then I'd rather watch a movie, read a book or go to the museum to look at pottery.

Dear Esther was an experiment, they wanted to test if a game like such would still sell. And it did.

And how is that a good thing? Doing something just because it makes money is as unartistic as you can get. I haven't played Dear Esther so I don't want to comment on it, but this comment is just stupid.

[Traggey]

The teaser trailer got me quite excited. With that said, I do think games should have gameplay. It's fine if someone makes games that are "art", but if you remove the gameplay from the game (like it seems they did in Dear Esther, I haven't actually played it) then I'd rather watch a movie, read a book or go to the museum to look at pottery.

Dear Esther was an experiment, they wanted to test if a game like such would still sell. And it did.

And how is that a good thing? Doing something just because it makes money is as unartistic as you can get. I haven't played Dear Esther so I don't want to comment on it, but this comment is just stupid.

Mistake from my side, it was created as a FREE mod first to see if it would do well, and as it did, it was then re-created as a standalone game.