Discussion about religion

[Kreekakon]

It is much easier to discuss religion when stupid and false assumptions about religion are not maintained by the opposing side. All arguments presented here against Christianity are easily refutable, whether with logic or Biblical facts. Educating yourself should be done before engaging in any discussion.

I think that this is a main reason that a very in-depth religious discussion won't work out here. Most of the people here, myself included, mostly are just posting their opinions/assumptions based off of everyday observations, and haven't really delved that deep into the subject to know enough about it to engage in in-depth discussions.

3. You know, his biggest flaw isn't that his arguments have so far been illogical, but incomplete. As for his third statement, "How can God affect the universe with supernatural powers when the universe is not supernatural?" I think St. Augustine's quote would suffice here, "Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary to what we know about nature." After all, natural laws do not apply to God.

I mean this more as a question rather than a counter-argument, but when you say that "natural laws" do not apply to God, do you mean that there is a form/extension of natural law which has not been tapped by humans (If tappable at all) which God functions under? Is what you're saying meaning that God can use a "law" of his own to influence our natural world?

[Sexbad]

Computer makes very detailed arguments but they are full of their own tiny flaws and baseless assumptions that make them not stand up to deep critical exploration. I would pick them apart but I have other things to do than actually become involved in another debate thread on a forum populated mostly by non-debaters.

[Adny]

If you have 30 spare minutes, you may find this interesting:

[Ghieri]

No, I mean literally - sense perception, such
as sight or hearing. Science is irrelevant. We see a tree in front of
us. Is it a tree? I don't know. I can never confirm for sure that it is a
tree regardless of how I observe it. Even if I look at its cells under a
micoscope or study its dna sequence, I can't tell for sure that
anything I'm looking at its real. Maybe the tree is actually a figment
of somebody's imagination. Maybe I'm dreaming. Maybe when I die I'll
wake up in a cramped space and realize that trees don't exist because
the universe decided to go LOLOLOLOL FUCK YOU.



But I have faith that it is a tree because I put faith in that what I see with my eyes is real.

...which is why we use the scientific method as the basis for our discoveries. As an Atheist, I take scientific fact above my senses because they are more flawed. It's not irrelevant because that is the basis of my belief, which doesn't require nearly as much faith as other religions.

[Your Computer]

I mean this more as a question rather than a counter-argument, but when you say that "natural laws" do not apply to God, do you mean that there is a form/extension of natural law which has not been tapped by humans (If tappable at all) which God functions under? Is what you're saying meaning that God can use a "law" of his own to influence our natural world?

When i say that "natural laws" do not apply to God i mean God does not fall under "natural laws" (this is not to say that He falls under an entirely different "law"). For if God is Creator, why would creation (e.g. "natural laws") be greater than Him?

Computer makes very detailed arguments but they are full of their own tiny flaws and baseless assumptions that make them not stand up to deep critical exploration. I would pick them apart but I have other things to do than actually become involved in another debate thread on a forum populated mostly by non-debaters.

Oh, you're no fun.

[Juby]

If God truly exists and space is endless, why would he concern him/her/itself with any of us? If the big bang theory is true, God never created us, we just happened. Somebody, somewhere came up with the idea that there was a higher, divine power unimaginable to us and that was used to explain many natural things; thunder was considered God at one time. These explanations somehow were gradually turned into lifestyles and differences in which blew mankind apart. From the point of making that "divine order" we drastically handi-capped ourselves and we can never get back.

If you can't already tell, I'm an atheist and an anarchist... I used to believe in God, but he has shown not a sign of him.

[Acies]

I believe in God.

Spoiler below!

Those who speak of spirituality outside of religion often define themselves as "spiritual but not religious" and generally believe in the existence of different "spiritual paths," emphasizing the importance of finding one's own individual path to spirituality.

Something like that. I won't indulge myself in the discussion though; as I believe that God is a matter of believing or not and shouldn't be approached by logical thinking.

I also believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion; meaning I won't shove my belief in someones face nor youtube rage

[Danny Boy]

If God truly exists and space is endless, why would he concern him/her/itself with any of us? If the big bang theory is true, God never created us, we just happened.

I an atheist open to the idea that there might be a god (a god not from any known religion) as well as I am open to the idea he might not exist, but I fell the need to defend religion on this one.

The big bang theory, as well as evolution, unlike what most religious and atheist people say, does not technically disprove the possibility of a god or god like being existing. Take this as an example: A friend of yours told me you parked your car on a mall, but later I find out you don't even have a car but in fact you have a bike and you parked it in your basement. Does it mean you do not exist? No! see what I am saying?

[bloogleford]

On a personal level generally I think religion is pretty dumb, and some pretty dumb people are religious.

Then again, I also really dislike elements of the "New Atheism" movement as well.

I also know some smart, extremely good people who are religious.


All in all, religion is a deep enough part of human culture that it's hard to make sweeping statements about it, complicated as asking something like "What do you think about political views", or "What do you think about gender relations".

The only part I can't get over is, how on earth can people believe in an all-seeing, all-powerful, loving God given the world we live in? Remember the Tsunami that killed like 200,000 people back in 2007 or so? Why would a God such as the one Christians worship ever allow something like that? What Danny posted earlier was inflammatory..but take it just on it's logic..what would religious people have to say about this..the questions he brought up are very valid!

I can see believing in .."Something", I just don't understand how people get past the disconnect above.

I used to be one of those people thought that religion is somehow responsible for most human ills..don't think that anymore, practically every philosophy or ideology has blood on it's hands..religion is also becoming a less effetive way of controlling people - especially in developed societies where things like Nationalism, mainstream media, and mainstream political parties manage a better job of that.

[Carrna]

My dad is an atheist and my mom has sort of buddhist beliefs. Both of them are members of a christian church. Probably just because of celebration and funeral things etc. and their parents had been members too. ...So I became a member as well. At home I was raised without any religious teachings, but since they teached so much christianity at school, I started to believe in god for some years.

I let go of my christian faith however, around somewhere when I was 15. Got so much crap poured on me for years despite of my constant pleas of help, so I thought it was time to try to stand on my own. I was also quite fed up of townfolks around me who constantly tried to force their gods and prophets down to my throat. The town I used to live in was quite religious.

It was already bad enough since I was quite a boyish girl, liked to hang out in forests and played videogames, but especially when I started to dress in black and listen to metal it caused a ruckus. I was generally denounced as a devil worshipper. I was (and still am) certain that if I had lived a few centuries ago I would've been burned as a witch. When I turned 18 I resigned from church, and at the age of 20 I was a nervous wreck and decided to move away.

Now, almost six years later my beliefs haven't changed much from those times. A friendlier environment has made me less absolute. I'm a sort of agnostic: too skeptic to fully believe in supernatural but I still hope there'd be something more than we're able to see. My way of life has some druidic or shamanistic features. I respect the nature and believe in Karma and the law of threefold return. I do to others as I'd like them to do to me, but if someone is an asshole towards me or my loved ones, I'm treating them like they treat me.