Although I would appreciate it if the negative reviewers try to keep things civil, and refrain from insulting thechineseroom, or Frictional Games. If you don't like the game, fine. Just say it in a civil, constructive way.
(09-11-2013, 10:47 AM)Alex Ros Wrote: Well but what the reason for not doing what Frictional made? Is there a single objective reason why Frictional guys should so hardly think what customers might think. I think it works much better vice versa. I mean those fans should or just could try to think why Frictional made their new game in such a way and what was their goal. When you're watching a movie or reading a book the public is supposed to try to understand all the undertow meanings, etc. It's not amusement park to amuse people or satisfy their own hopes and dreams, it's more a kind of art as long games are far-long began to move people emotionally and force them to think about some particular themes. Surely, there are a lot more of "amusement park" games. Similar to Holywood where we have 90% of mass-chewable movies and 10% of something interesting. Same here in the gamedev industry. Frictional are not "Die Hard" makers, they are more like... Terry Gilliam, Larry Clark, Guillermo del Toro, etc. Not Stanley Kubrick yet )))))) Anyway, that's IMO of course.
I was probably not clear in what I meant. I will try to rephrase:
FG or TCR have creative freedom to do anything they like. As long as they don't lie when they sell their game (ex: Aliens: Colonial Marines) it's fine.
However, there is no denying that there is direct link between certain desicions and certain reactions. This is established scientific fact.
For example, if your sequel will have several features of the previous game removed, people will see it as a negative point. And reviewers will lower their ratings accordingly, while regular customers will argue on forums that the game is worse without those.
This is not unique to gaming. For example, did you know about one interesting experiment with moneys? A monkey is in a cage, pulling a lever makes leaves fall into the feeding tray. Monkey eats leaves, so when it's hungry, it will pull the lever to get some food. Then, at some time, when monkey pulls lever, grapefruit falls down instead. Monkey prefers graprefruits to leaves. They're much tastier. Next time, if it pulls the lever and leaves fall down again, it will get angry and throw the leaves at the scientists.
This is what happens when you make a sequel that has less something than the previous games. You cannot lower the plank without consequences.
That is not to say that they CANNOT do so. They very much can, it is their freedom to do so. But time will pass before they can shape their audience and convince them that, for example, no inventory is indeed better than with inventory.
Meanwhile, they will have disgrunted fans, and you cannot argue that fans have no reason to be disgrunted, nor can you argue that this was unexpected to happen. You cannot argue even that "if you don't want a game w/o inventory don't buy MfP since it's well known it won't have inventory" or "that critic didn't understand that it was intended to have no inventory" because critics do not only review the games they like, that would be silly. They review the games they have to, the games that come out, and they speak their opinion. And it is natural and perfectly logically sound to have an optinion that when sequel lacks something original had, it's a negative point.
You can argue that this is a problem of people buying a game based on wether they liked the previous game from the same author, not based on wether this game is for their tastes. But that's how we humans are made. You ain't going to change that no matter how much you argue. People continue to be biased and judge content subjectively, not objectively.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013, 04:00 PM by Istrebitel.)
The following is my opinion based review. Please respect that.
Pros:
+ Interesting story, which kept me wanting to press on to find out more.
+ Amazing level design and architecture. I was really impressed here.
+ Perfect sound design. The atmosphere was very well complimented with the outstanding soundtrack. The music is beautiful.
+ Believable and terrifying environment. The developers did a great job here.
+ The writing (Notes) were brilliant. Reinforced the story and created 'Mandus' in a believable manner.
+ I was simply blown away by the quality of the voice acting. Better than a lot of AAA games.
+ The atmospheric fear is much more present in this game. I found myself terrified to press on due to the great soundtrack and eerie environment.
Cons:
- Lack of any well thought out puzzles. I was very disappointed that there wasn't any sign of puzzles. It would have helped a lot with breaking up the flow of the game in my opinion.
- Lack of interaction with objects/the world. I felt this hurt the game quite a lot. Though interaction with useless objects may seem unnecessary, it makes the player feel restricted.
- The game felt more linear due to many locked doors. I felt like I couldn't properly explore the amazing world the developers had created.
- No inventory system. I wasn't too bothered by this but since the gameplay lacks it really should have been kept in, at least in some form.
- Disappointed with the less frequent monster encounters. This ultimately lowered the 'scary' feel of the game.
- Minor visual issues with clipping of objects, I saw 4 in total in my playthrough.
Overall:
Visuals, story and sound were all better in A machine for pigs. However the game is let down by the gameplay. A lack of interaction, monster encounters and exploration cripples the experience in terms of gameplay, length and scariness.
I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
On a side note, most people who don't enjoy the game either don't care for atmosphere and story - thus don't become immersed OR they expected it to be very similar to TDD.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013, 04:57 PM by LoneWolf.)
(09-11-2013, 01:31 PM)Paddy Wrote: My review is mainly an open love-letter to the developers; I've enclosed it in spoiler tags so that it may be more easily ignored by tl;dr types
Spoiler below!
AAMFP is a game which will undoubtedly be appreciated and respected more and more with time. When the dust settles from the initial release's explosion of knee-jerk opinion and vitriol from bratty teenagers, most of whom haven't even played the game for them-fucking-selves, I have complete faith that it will be seen as a masterpiece if it isn't already.
Samuel Justice and Jessica Curry (and anyone else involved with giving me eargasms) should be bestowed with golden ass-scratchers made from melted-down Grammy awards, because their work is beyond amazing and no actual award would suffice.
Pinchbeck's writing is so strong and full of unique character that his hand is undeniably the guiding force of the game; had I not been told The Chinese Room were making the game and that Dan Pinchbeck was writing it I'd have come away from it saying "damn, that game could almost have been made by The Chinese Room!". Fuck me them's is some goodly-written words. And coupled with the voice acting? Bloody hell what a pleasure this game was to experience.
It's a sumptuous, nourishing, fattening experience which left me feeling fulfilled and exhilarated. The game felt so thick with presence and place, it was clear to me that an ungodly amount of effort and care had gone into it. The polish, skill and attention to detail slapped me in the face with its engorged vulva in every square foot of the world I explored (that means it was good, in case you were wondering).
I've been obsessively waiting for this game since February 2012 and although the game is not what I expected it to be (I'm not entirely sure what I was expecting) it has completely and thoroughly satisfied me. Had I waited another year for the game's release I'd have loved it just as much. Playing this game on release day was an event for me (one I enjoyed in tandem with my friend Ashteroth) and I'm still buzzing from it a day later. I don't remember the last time I was this jazzed up to play a game.
How does it stand up next to The Dark Descent? Well, that's the million dollar question, the answer to which is a resounding "who gives a shit?". TDD is the scariest game I've ever played, and I adore it to this day despite having played it 100 times over. AAMFP is a very different beast. The comparisons are forgiveable because they are obviously part of the same series, but I don't feel like it's fair to pitch them against each other because they each have their own distinct feel, style, nature, whatever you want to call it. TCR did exactly what they promised they'd do with the sequel and the game needs to be taken on its own merits. Had the game been released under a different name (perhaps the same name minus the "Amnesia" part) the response would be significantly more positive right off the bat. Most of the complaints are about the lack of an inventory, sanity meter, and so on. These points would never have been raised as negatives had TDD not been so front and centre in the minds of gamers and reviewers. BOLLOCKS, I say.
It might not be as important as I think it is, but the fact that the game is not called "Amnesia 2: A Machine for Pigs" should give you a sense of what I mean. This isn't a direct sequel - which has been stated numerous times by both TCR and FG - so we all need to stop judging it as if it were.
I don't care much for "ratings" but suffice it to say I love the game and appreciate the insane amount of work that went into it.
Who's that Ashteroth you're talking about? Are you cheating on me?! *takes whip out*
Anyway, I couldn't agree more with Paddy.
The sound design, music score, storytelling and atmosphere were absolutely amazing, definitely the high points of AAMFP. I also loved the voice acting, so rich and deep! I can see myself replaying the game many times more, just to experience all these elements together again.
I loved how the game created this feeling of discomfort and tension in me, as the story was progressing. The descriptions in the diaries were so disturbing that I felt there was no need to see gory scenes, the texts were enough to make me feel sick.
Also, the ending was extremely well achieved and satisfying, in my opinion (something The Dark Descent lacked).
The only weak point in the game for me was the monsters. I didn't find them scary at all. I was spotted by one (below the church, if I remember correctly) and he came for me and killed me, and I just didn't feel any fear.
The only times when I panicked a little were when being chased by more than one monster at the same time.
Also, the blue fog was annoying at the beginning but I got used to it and I think it even added to the atmosphere on later levels.
(09-11-2013, 03:51 PM)MonkEsquire Wrote: "you aren't allowed to have a negative opinion of something just because you registered on the official game forums to post that opinion!"
(09-11-2013, 03:43 PM)Alardem Wrote: I love how all the negative reviews are coming from people who've signed up for the first time just to complain.
I never saw much of a point in joining before hand to complain about the delay times or other banality that tends to pervade forums in off-seasons. But when a new game is released and this is the only way to get have my voice heard as a customer, I'm certainly going to come out of the woodwork to say that I paid for a sequel to a 10 hour, survival horror game with action and story, not a 4 hour Amnesia-themed portfolio for an art-grad's writing that may as well have transpired in a theme park ghost train for all of the gameplay intensive bits that there were. It wasn't a challenge, it was an inconvenience. A great looking, well written inconvenience that actually looked as though it would surpass the first game for a while, but ultimately dropped its heart and soul to deliver us journal entries and ensure that we didn't miss out on the great yarn that TCR was so keen on telling.
As I've said, bait-and-switch.
Can anyone tell me where in the game this TDD-esque moment (00:33) was? Because I didn't experience it. Not to say that a moment from a year ago should or should not have been cut from the game, but that advertisement made the game appear to be in the same horror vein of avoidance, hiding, and survival as TDD, which was the element I missed the most in AMFP.
Which is interesting, because now that I really think about it, as well-written as the story was, it would only have been bolstered by TDD-esque gameplay.
What's Mandus's motivation? To find his kids. Why? Because he continues to mention that.
But as we continue through the game, after each set piece, Mandus makes a huge to-do about what he's facing and how he's overcoming adversity. A game should never have to tell a player how difficult or scary their experience is, the player should be able to make that determination from first hand experience.
If the story was primarily about one man's quest for redemption by overcoming the most hellish machinations of his fevered mind, should he not be utterly broken by his quest? Should the experience not shatter every visage of sanity that the man has? Should the experience not have the same weight and horror as TDD? That way, at the end of everything that Mandus has struggled through, instead of a scrap of paper or scribble in a journal telling us how we are supposed to feel, the player could know first hand the hell they've gone through, and experience the heartbreak themselves.
Also, in regards to character development:
Spoiler below!
It is worth noting that merely mentioning the children in past-tense doesn't tug at the heart strings as much as say-
A flashback (using the mansion environment with more light) or a simple voiceover during one of the unconscious periods where you hear Mandus speak lovingly to his children, or they have a simple piece of dialogue back and forth. Just something to experience/see rather than read.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013, 06:07 PM by atticman.)
(09-11-2013, 01:55 PM)Paddy Wrote: The clear majority of the complaints I've read on this forum are not in that category. In fact, most of the time they're barely coherent.
The majority of the pro-AAMFP reviews are barely coherent as well. "It had the best fucking story ever" is just about as informative as "This game is stupid because it doesn't have an inventory". Why was the story good? Why is not having an inventory bad? I've been trying to find answers to these questions for quite some times now, to no avail.
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