Is A Machine For Pigs best suited to a 'mature' audience?

[Nyarlathotep]

But it was more complex than that, not terribly more complex, but still had more to it.

It has more mechanics but I don't think they add any legitimate depth to the game. They're just there to make it feel like "Survival Horror". As far as completion you can ignore all of that. You can even let yourself get killed over and over and still progress. These just aren't things the player thinks about on the first time through.

It's no different from pigs in faking its challenge. Pigs just threw the mechanics that served no real purpose away. Hoping to allow the player's attention to be pulled toward environment details for the sake of their purpose in the story and setting, rather than their purpose as gameplay objects.

Really? What was scary about it?

On a first playthrough? The whole game. I didn't know how rare the actual threats were. All of the fakeouts were convincing for me. Aside from the fear of the enemy encounters? The way it messed with the objects and geometry in weird ways. There was more psychological horror at play than in The Dark Descent. And, the story itself was sad and disturbing. All great aspects of the horror genre. It made me feel uneasy.

[sailornaruto39]

But it was more complex than that, not terribly more complex, but still had more to it.

It has more mechanics but I don't think they add any legitimate depth to the game. They're just there to make it feel like "Survival Horror". As far as completion you can ignore all of that. You can even let yourself get killed over and over and still progress. These just aren't things the player thinks about on the first time through.

It's no different from pigs in faking its challenge. Pigs just threw the mechanics that served no real purpose away. Hoping to allow the player's attention to be pulled toward environment details for the sake of their purpose in the story and setting, rather than their purpose as gameplay objects.

Really? What was scary about it?

On a first playthrough? The whole game. I didn't know how rare the actual threats were. All of the fakeouts were convincing for me. Aside from the fear of the enemy encounters? The way it messed with the objects and geometry in weird ways. There was more psychological horror at play than in The Dark Descent. And, the story itself was sad and disturbing. All great aspects of the horror genre. It made me feel uneasy.

Thanks for expounding on why you liked it. Understanding why others liked it made me a little less mad about it. I find it funny though, I dislike this game for almost everything it. Everything you made makes sense.

I feel like it would have accomplished what it wanted more if it didn't try to play of as something like TDD. DIdn't Dear Ester do well for them?

[Nyarlathotep]

I feel like it would have accomplished what it wanted more if it didn't try to play of as something like TDD. DIdn't Dear Ester do well for them?

I think it accomplished exactly what it wanted, though. Frictional always wanted The Dark Descent to be focused on experience and storytelling above challenging game mechanics. That's why the message at the start of the game asks you to treat it that way.

Frictional knew what kind of games The Chinese Room made, and that's why Frictional approached them for this sequel. They share very similar ideals in terms of game design.

[sailornaruto39]

I feel like it would have accomplished what it wanted more if it didn't try to play of as something like TDD. DIdn't Dear Ester do well for them?

I think it accomplished exactly what it wanted, though. Frictional always wanted The Dark Descent to be focused on experience and storytelling above challenging game mechanics. That's why the message at the start of the game asks you to treat it that way.

Frictional knew what kind of games The Chinese Room made, and that's why Frictional approached them for this sequel. They share very similar ideals in terms of game design.

Really? Where did you get that from? I'm just wondering so I could have a point of reference. Because if that's the case, that would be really weird.

If that's what They've wanted all a long Why wasn't TDD like MFP in the first place?

[Nyarlathotep]

Really? Where did you get that from? I'm just wondering so I could have a point of reference. Because if that's the case, that would be really weird.

If that's what They've wanted all a long Why wasn't TDD like MFP in the first place?

Here's the image that shows at the start of The Dark Descent, the first time you launch it. Which I think makes their intentions clear.

I don't know the details of why the resource mechanics and such were left in. But my guess is that it's just leftover design ideas that they didn't feel comfortable removing. Especially due to how close they were to not releasing the game at all. In a retrospective, Thomas Grip talked about the shallowness of TDD being a regret. In how he wants their games to push deeper and more thought provoking stories and themes.

http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/ and here's where they talk about all of this stuff. I can't name which entries right off hand. But I remember reading the information clearly enough. Regarding their thoughts on The Chinese Room's work, etc.

[sailornaruto39]

Really? Where did you get that from? I'm just wondering so I could have a point of reference. Because if that's the case, that would be really weird.

If that's what They've wanted all a long Why wasn't TDD like MFP in the first place?

Here's the image that shows at the start of The Dark Descent, the first time you launch it. Which I think makes their intentions clear.

I don't know the details of why the resource mechanics and such were left in. But my guess is that it's just leftover design ideas that they didn't feel comfortable removing. Especially due to how close they were to not releasing the game at all. In a retrospective, Thomas Grip talked about the shallowness of TDD being a regret. In how he wants their games to push deeper and more thought provoking stories and themes.

http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/ and here's where they talk about all of this stuff. I can't name which entries right off hand. But I remember reading the information clearly enough. Regarding their thoughts on The Chinese Room's work, etc.

They want the player to be immersed in the world and story. I would like to think gameplay would affect that.

I feel they left the game mech in TDD because he believed

" The core of the game should not be about reading or watching cutscenes, it should be about playing."


"First, players must feel as though they are an active part of the story and not just an observer"

The LP'er Harshlycritical felt like an observer not a participant, because of how linear the game was and how it lacked in the interactivity department.

So I'm not sure how MR.Grip would want devs that breaks a rules for good story telling. I looked in the blogs and I don't see even the mention of MFP. There were a few passive mentiones of Dear Ester that seemed to imply that it isn't a very interactive game.

[Nyarlathotep]

" The core of the game should not be about reading or watching cutscenes, it should be about playing."

Which is pratically all MFP is.

Pigs' is directly comparable to TDD here. The note reading situation is about the same, and neither game really has you watching cutscenes except for the openings and endings.

Regarding Pigs. There are a lot of entries dating back where they show their interest in Dear Esther and Korsakovia. And then some where they talk about how the collaboration came about.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/19992...eloper.php

Here's an easier link for me to find. But otherwise not much more to add on this thought.

And, regarding the linearity. That's something I consider a small flaw, as well. But nothing so bad as to ruin my experience. It just left me wanting to explore a little more than I was allowed to at times. The amount of detail in the environments mostly made up for it, though.

[Fortigurn]

I couldn't agree more with what Thomas says here.

"First, players must feel as though they are an active part of the story and not just an observer."

I don't feel MFP lived up to this ideal as much as TDD.

[sailornaruto39]

" The note reading situation is about the same"


Not really. Pigs had way more reading notes as that's kinda all there was too it. Amnesia had notes of course but most of the game was spent being a part of the world (mixing stuff, hiding/running from monsters)


Hmm I went all the way back to Feb 2012 and ctrl'd F Dear Esther and it only ever came up as an example of game design style


Thanks for that link about their choice for TCR, kinda disappointed in FG though.


What I got from that is that they didn't want to make an 2nd game themselves due to lack of interest, so they had someone else do it. And they seemed to like it for very general reasons.


But oh well, Apparently they appreciated the different direction it went.


I just hope that if they are making a 3rd one they should take over and maybe derive a little influence fro TCR, but not too much XD

[Kreekakon]

Nah I don't think we'll be seeing another Amnesia for at least a very long time since both companies now have their own projects to make. TCR has Everyone's Gone to rapture, and Frictional has their secret project.