Why remove the trailer scenes?

[Fortigurn]

I personally don't think this is really something to get upset about, or blame Frictional/TCR for "bait, and switching".

I don't think there was any bait and switch, not by Frictional nor by TCR. There was however an unrealistic expectation built up by the marketing (though I don't believe that was deliberate).

If they did I think it would be really weird if FG came out, and said "Hey guys just so you know after a year, this trailer is completely outdated, and the game will be nothing like this!"

Weird or not, if you don't do it then you need to realise you're risking player disappointment. I am very satisfied with MFP, which I believe is a sufficiently solid game to stand on its own two feet, without needing to piggyback TDD (pun intended). But I was disappointed that it doesn't have features I expected, and I do prefer the Frictional style of interactive gameplay for this kind of game.

I loved Dear Esther (I played the original), but I went into that game completely knowing what to expect, and I was delighted to have that experience delivered exactly the way I expected. The story telling was brilliant, the environment well crafted (they didn't try to do anything spectacular with the Source engine, which was good, they just let it do what it's best at), the atmosphere was outstanding. Harrington's narration was utterly haunting, and Curry's music is top shelf (it's first class in MFP). I could not fault Dear Esther, and still regard it as one of the best games ever made (arguably the best in that very small genre).

With regard to MFP, I agree with another member here who observed that the game provided more interaction than Dear Esther, but less than TDD, falling between stools somewhat, and frustrating certain players (including myself). I feel control of the game is sometimes wrestled away from me, and I'm led by the nose, only to be 'allowed' to interact again when the game is ready for me. If it were either consistently Dear Esther style or TDD style, less people would be complaining (as long as it had been marketed as being Dear Esther style).

But all in all I think a lot of the negative feedback has come from players frustrated by a deeply immersive game which satisfies at many levels, but which doesn't live up to its full potential. And all in all I think TCR should take that as a compliment. Regardless of the initial reviews, I believe this is a game which will gain a mature following within the Amnesia community, and if it becomes moddable its rich lore will undoubtedly become the source of some outstanding community extensions.

Incidentally I found that being able to interact with objects in Dear Esther was immensely satisfying, despite the fact that absolutely no objects in the world had anything to do with the plot. In fact being able to pick up bits and pieces of junk, searching for something meaningful but never finding it, and being able to do nothing else except toss them aimlessly aside, contributed significantly to the game's atmosphere of hopelessness, loss, and despair. Free interaction with objects on the player's terms in this way certainly enhances immersion. I've never yet seen anyone say 'The less I can do in the game, the less I can interact with the environment, and the less control I have, the more immersed I feel'.

[felixmole]

Actually, there was a pig encounter in the cage area right up until we handed it over to Frictional at the end of January. We talked a lot after that and it got removed, and the reasoning was that players would be expecting a Pig to be in the room, so we got the build of tension through the expectation. If the Pig didn't appear, it keeps the fear high as players area constantly expecting it. And you can broadside them by introducing a pig at another point in the level where it's not expected.

Hey Dan. What about the first pig encounter that happens when you open the door near the stairs, like in the first teaser? Why is it just a fleeing pig? Is it because the area had so many entities that the pig could have got stuck chasing the player or something?

Many of the trailers were shown over a year ago, during which the games were still deep in development, and many things were subject to change. I would understand the backlash, and think it justified IF the trailers were from extremely close to release, but they were over a year ago.

Not to forget that some playthroughs of AMFP were released a dozen of days before the release.

[NicoNico]

Spoiler below!

There is a pig encounter in the cage area. Not the "scene pig" but an actual encounter. You get the encounter depending on how you play after having been there the first time.

I don't know if that's what you're talking about, but here's what happened to me :
In the cage area, under the church, the first pig got me and killed me. I expected to respawn something like up the stairs or something like that, but I respawned in a cage ! I thought it was so cool
I was like "Damn, this pig locked me in a cage ! I'm the animal, now !"
I don't know if that's the part, but i liked that !

[Fortigurn]

Spoiler below!

There is a pig encounter in the cage area. Not the "scene pig" but an actual encounter. You get the encounter depending on how you play after having been there the first time.

Spoiler below!

If you're talking about the cage area under the church, then yes that's where I found my first pig. There seemed to be a pig encounter scripted in the cistern, but it didn't seem to work. I heard it, and occasionally I saw a trotter appear and move through the air as it grunted and seemed to try to attack me, but the trotters never connected, the entire pig never appeared, and I just walked straight through it. The two pigs in the piston room however were terrifying, and I enjoyed being chased by them.

[Draug]

I think jens is talking about

Spoiler below!

the cage area near the centrifuge, where you have to mix the two components.

[Fortigurn]

I think jens is talking about

Spoiler below!

the cage area near the centrifuge, where you have to mix the two components.

I certainly had a pig encounter there.

[sailornaruto39]

If they changed it because they didn't want players to expect it that IS bait and switch. Now if they were going with that style of gameplay/scares (That similar to TDD) and at some point before release said "FUCK IT" and changed it because they wanted to revise it, I don't approve but oh well.

But putting something in a trailer just only to take it out comes off sketchy to me.

[Kreekakon]

But putting something in a trailer just only to take it out comes off sketchy to me.

Think of this then: If you were the dev, and you released a teaser trailer early in development showcasing some scenes, but later down the road you find out those scenes won't work as well as you thought, what would you have done?

[sailornaruto39]

But putting something in a trailer just only to take it out comes off sketchy to me.

Think of this then: If you were the dev, and you released a teaser trailer early in development showcasing some scenes, but later down the road you find out those scenes won't work as well as you thought, what would you have done?

I would remove them, which is why I said that if at the time of the trailer they wanted to be more like TDD, but some time between the release and that trailer they changed their minds, I would understand.

But if it was never meant to be like TDD yet put a scene highly akin to it's style of scare, then take it out and say "well, we didn't want you to see it coming"
I call BS

[Paddy™]

I was mildly disappointed that the trailer scenes weren't in the game, but I didn't feel "cheated" or anything. However, I do think that the mechanics and the "feel" of those scenes were also lost in the final game, which is a different problem. For instance, at no point in the game do you have to hide from the monsters behind doors or in cages, or anywhere really. The closest we come to hiding is when we're dodging enemies by crouching behind boxes or pillars. There are a few script-scares involving banging doors, but that's not quite the same as having a "live" enemy chasing you in real-time. In that sense the trailers were kinda showing something which wasn't entirely representative of the final game.

I loved the game, though.