Monsters, and Why They Aren't Scary.

[Akong]

Penumbra was scary, as in, really scary. Probably the scariest game I have ever played. With that said, there were some things that could have been scarier.

The doggies. I think we all felt that absolute feeling of dread when we first heard the cry of a dog in the mine and when we first saw those glowing eyes scouting for fresh Protagonist meat. And it was very effective.

It was mainly effective because it was you and him. He could be anywhere in that tiny area and if he found you, you were probably going to die (If you played on hard, that is). He was a looming presence, we knew he was there, but not where.

What I'm trying to say here is, we only needed to see him once for it to be scary. Every following time we saw him, it got decreasingly scary, eventually leading to the general annoyance, rather than scariness, the dogs posed towards the end of the game. (Also, figuring out that you could jump on a box to avoid them detracted a little too.) Many people simply took to running as fast as they could to avoid them, which isn't really all that scary.

I think many people would have liked less, but more varied threats. We like to think that every enemy can potentially kill us, and not just be more of the same old thing, which we already know the key to defeating.

This was true for both (Requiem doesn't count) Penumbra games. The Tuurngait really lost their effectiveness towards the end of the game.

I don't think I'm the only one who was more scared when not in the immediate presence of an enemy, simply because I didn't know what was going to happen.

Still, props to Frictional for making me afraid of a dog.

TL;DR: Hurr durr, look at that dog trying to get me on the box! I'm the cleverest! (Okay, maybe that wasn't the best summary.)

[Viter]

Tbh the dog was scarier at distance than up close, becaus the animation on the dogs looked really horrible up close >.<

[Akong]

That's true, but it also illustrates a point. When something is up in our face all of the time, we get to see exactly what it is and how it works, which makes it less mysterious and less scary.

[RoyaleBeast]

reason why the tuurngait became decreasingly scary. Because the ones in the end had scripted walking points. the first few times when they didn't that was scary. I spent almost 45 minutes in one room thinking if i had the balls to move.

[Sexbad]

I found that after a while the Tuurngait actually became increasingly scary. At first you basically had to hide while they patrolled past you, but in places like the area when you exit the kennels, you had to use your wits to sneak past, or otherwise a ball-shrinking chase ensued.
I also still consider many dog encounters in Overture frightening, through there are a few episodes that I felt more of a contrivance than much else because of how many times I had to retry them on hard.

On a semi-related note, I just got Silent Hill 2, and so far I found about two minutes (leading up to the first monster and all that) actually scary. When I learned that I can simply beat an enemy until it dies with nearly no adversity, I instantly became immune. It may get better soon, and I'll keep playing, but it really felt similar to the horror in Condemned where, sure, it's dark and dreary, but all you have to do is hit things until they die. It's just that the nauseating overproduction and linearity of Condemned was switched in favor of a camera with a vendetta against you.

Just beating something to death is kind of boring.

[Akong]

Some good points.

The thing about the Tuurngait is that they are incredibly easy to outrun and once you figure that out, nothing's to stop you from just running around from door to door. I usually try to keep up the act of sneaking around, but when you get bored you figure out that it's much quicker to just run everywhere. I have to say though, that first Tuurngait scared the living crap out of me.

I have very mixed feelings about Condemned. I felt it was rather scary due to the unpredictable nature of the AI. (Also the mannequins. Oh god, the mannequins!) It got less scary the further you went, once the crack-heads were replaced with monsters. The biggest gripe I have with Condemned is the story. Monolith must be secretly Japanese or something, because that plot makes no sense. I'm tired of getting symbols and signs, clues and hints stuffed down my throat, only to later find out that they bore no significance to the plot whatsoever. Also don't even get me started on the sequel and its obsession with combos.

Spoiler below!

And the screaming at people until their heads blow up. What were they thinking?

[dreadi]

Very good points in this thread and I agree with most of them. The most important thing in a horror game (or movie) is the initial build up of the atmosphere. Overture and for example the Shalebridge Cradle mission in Thief 3 do this really well. Also the fact that your first enemy in Penumbra is a ferocius dog instead of a zombiemonster keeps the credibility factor up. I've never progressed as slowly in a game as in the beginning of Overture because I was so nervous.
But because it's a game and a game always works according to simple mechanics, you quickly learn how the enemies act, how fast they can run, wether they can see you in a certain situation or not etc. Thus the horror factor decreases rapidly in accordance with how much you have to deal with a certain type of hostile entity. Overture of course had many other events to help keep the atmosphere up but the patrolling dogs and spiders got rather old towards the end. Although the ending of overture was quite cheesy, it still worked for me perfectly. It really felt like the whole game had been a build up for just that short sequence and it left me shivering. This is because you are introduced for the first time to a new entity in the game. It looks like a human but the situation screams that everything is wrong about it.
Having variety is really important in a horror game. I mentioned the cradle earlier for it's good atmosphere build up, but after confronting the first (and only) type of enemy in the mission you stop being scared really fast.
What I would like to see are completely unique enemies everytime. Not just in how they look but how they act should be radically different from eachother. This way if the game never used the same trick twice, the player wouldn't be allowed to simply learn the gameplay mechanics to avoid danger. You would be on your toes all the time because you would never really know what's coming and the game could build the atmosphere for the next enemy substantially better. Of course this would require more time from the developers and I can imagine it's not really an option for a small dev like Frictional.
Another option would be to introduce different kind of behavior than what the player is used to from an already known enemy. For example if you have a tuurngait you know it's gonna be prowling around on its two feet. What if one of them was suddenly crawling towards you on the ceiling (which is always creepy)?. The player would be surprised having to rethink what to expect from already known enemies.

Also, I thought Condemned wasn't scary at all. It was just far too gamey and silly. It also always bothered me how a guy with supposedly superhuman strength runs out of breath after 10 seconds of running.

[purple_pixie]

Having read all that, there's nothing specific I need to reply to, so here's my unsolicited view:

In Overture, the first dog scared the pants off me.
Completely and utterly panicked me. I was, admittedly, playing alone, in the dark and at around midnight.
(Never again ... oh sweet lord no)
I was literally terrified.

Spoiler below!

But then I discovered a simple application of hammer to the forehead and *bam* not scary at all.
Sure, they were a little scary when you had two or more, but really they became "bad guys" like in every game, a simple case of something to frag. I was less than impressed from that point on (but only by the dogs!)

Which is odd, because the spiders were scary anyway. (Yes, I'm arachnophobic, but not of digital spiders really) I guess it was because they weren't scary because they're something you have to run away from, they're just inherently scary because of the creepy dangerous nature of "Ahhh, it's jumping at my face!"

The Tuurngait in Black Plague never once stopped petrifying me.
That part in the facility with the key and the running around with them chasing you? Not once did that stop scaring me. Not once.
Yeah, I realised that I could just about stay ahead of them if I sprinted, but the fact that you have to face forwards and just *hope* that you can continue to outrun them, that had me on the edge of my chair every second.

I loved it. Oh, sure, I hated it like nothing else, but I loved it too.

Monsters *are* scary. Terrifying, in fact.
But only so long as you can't hurt them.

Bad guys are not scary. Not for a minute.

That feeling of sheer panic when the first Tuurngait in Black Blague busts the door open and mashes you into a pulp in the corner while you cannot do a thing? Sheer terror.
And personally, I didn't feel that let up, and I think those two games are easily the most immersive, and impressive I've seen in a long time.
Most immersive ever, in fact, and most impressive since Portal <3

So yeah, maybe Requiem was just a puzzle game that was only scary because of the "Penumbra" tacked onto the beginning of the name and the title music, but we'll let that one slide - it won't stop me from buying Amnesia, not for a second.

But while I'm ranting - please, please don't make another game that's too hard :-)
The main problem with Requiem personally was actually that it forced me to quit and come back to it lots of times because the puzzles/solutions weren't obvious.
The others I could just sit down and play through (pausing to let my nerves and sanity recover, naturally) but Requiem the puzzles were all it had, and they were too hard to be really fun.
You don't have to tax someone's problem-solving skills to the max to make them enjoy the game, there wasn't one bit of the first ones that made me think "But I've done everything I possibly can, and there's just no way through here" - the only thing stopping me was a genuine desire not to even *know* what was on the other side of that door, not that I couldn't open it :-)
[/rant]

[TheLittleGarfield]

Requiem wasn't hard for me. But it was scary sometimes and I like the atmosphere. That's the only thing that kept me playing it.

[Sexbad]

I think the atmosphere in Requiem fit perfectly. It really is a top-notch puzzle game even if you wanted monsters, and the fact that everyone with a line is extremely mysterious or vague fits the puzzle atmosphere.