Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

[PutraenusAlivius]

I obvisouly won't speak for them, but their jobs is to make games, not sit quietly and take loads of craps from strangers for free. The smart move would possibly not to react at all, even on this forum that is overall a little less crual. Ok so they may have overhyped the fear elements, and it was really more an advertising thing than "intellectual honesty", and maybe not such a good idea (also a bit funny and ironic I think after reading it). I missed all of this as "fear" and "horror" alone is not what dragged me to the FG series.
But you even can't really say they failed at it, "fear" is a subjective feeling, it's doesn't go on a scale or meter (not more than sanity...), there are very different kind of fear.
I also think that there a few flaws in the game, but from what I've red from the Chinese Room people, from frictional games approach, and from playing the game, I feel they completely succeeded at what they set out to do in the first place, and for every little thing people don't like they have an honest justification that fits their artistic vision, and they wouldn't had it any other way. For me this shows intellectual honesty, and intergrity, something that's a bit underrated in the whole "video game industry".

I'm sorry, but I just can't resist myself.
obviously*
cruel*
read*
integrity*

But seriously, you're right. They did succeed.

[Ashtoreth]

I obvisouly won't speak for them, but their jobs is to make games, not sit quietly and take loads of craps from strangers for free.

Sorry, it wasn't my intention to compare the nature of the job I had with the nature of their job, of course it's totally different.

I was just trying to say that when we choose a job, or when we accept a job, we have to do our best to deal with the negative consequences that might come with it, and to not let it affect us on a personal level.

If a person chooses a job in an industry that gives them media coverage (like films, music, videogames, etc.), they should know that they won't be able to please everyone, and that sooner or later they will receive negative - and sometimes even unfair - criticism.

[Paddy™]

I'm sorry, but I just can't resist myself.

Have you tried wearing boxing gloves in bed?

[grrrz]

I'm sorry, but I just can't resist myself.

Have you tried wearing boxing gloves in bed?

about sandpaper gloves?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r38E3CstVA4

I'm sorry, but I just can't resist myself.
obviously*
cruel*
read*
integrity*

sorry for the typos (I'm french if that's an excuse)
also was convinced "red" was the past of read.

[Fortigurn]

I think they succeeded very well in creating the game they wanted, and I enjoyed the game they created, and I thought it was scary, though in a less suspenseful manner than TDD.

[Quizerno]

you'd prefer a PR bullshit over an honest opinion?
when there are stupid hateful negative comments by the thousands by people who think that because they're desappointed by a game and they spent 20 of their precious dollars they have to be gianormous assholes about it, even if you probably try not to think about it, you have to be a buddhist monk not to have a bit of an epidermic reaction.

False dichotomy, I'd prefer them to be professional and honest without doing PR bullshit.

Yes, there are assholes. Assholes do not invalidate sensible criticism.

I obvisouly won't speak for them, but their jobs is to make games, not sit quietly and take loads of craps from strangers for free. The smart move would possibly not to react at all, even on this forum that is overall a little less crual.

It's not entitlement to complain when you did not like the product. If you're a development studio, it makes sense to listen to those complaints.

Ok so they may have overhyped the fear elements, and it was really more an advertising thing than "intellectual honesty", and maybe not such a good idea (also a bit funny and ironic I think after reading it).

Yes, false advertising is not a good idea. Just as lying is not a good idea.
I agree that customers should do research before buying a product, but first someone eventually HAS to buy the product in order to see what the results are.

I missed all of this as "fear" and "horror" alone is not what dragged me to the FG series.

But you even can't really say they failed at it, "fear" is a subjective feeling, it's doesn't go on a scale or meter (not more than sanity...), there are very different kind of fear.

Horror is subjective yes. But they failed at making a "game" they succeeded in making a walking simulator.

I also think that there a few flaws in the game, but from what I've red from the Chinese Room people, from frictional games approach, and from playing the game, I feel they completely succeeded at what they set out to do in the first place, and for every little thing people don't like they have an honest justification that fits their artistic vision, and they wouldn't had it any other way. For me this shows intellectual honesty, and intergrity, something that's a bit underrated in the whole "video game industry".

I think they succeeded very well in creating the game they wanted, and I enjoyed the game they created, and I thought it was scary, though in a less suspenseful manner than TDD.

Artistic vision is a bad excuse. They did Dear Esther, they did Korsakovia, they did Conscientious Objector. They've done their artistic vision, they've had plenty of time to do it on their own.

They were making a successor to Amnesia. If their vision was quite different from the original game they could have emphasized such. Before release, we got interviews and snippits of them comparing it to the original. After the release we're getting quotes of them saying "they didn't want the game to be scary" and flat out admitting that the game isn't like the original.

Ninja Theory, under Capcom, did their artistic vision of the Devil May Cry series, DMC. People didn't want their vision, they didn't want a reboot. The game suffered as a result on release. Same thing happened to the new Syndicate and The Bureau.

Psyonix, under Square-Enix, will be doing their artistic vision of the Legacy of Kain series, Nosgoth. A multiplayer F2P MOBA based on the singleplayer series. They've already received tons of criticism for it and their changes to the lore.

If you want to do your own artistic vision, make your own IP.

If you use an existing IP, don't be surprised when people complain.

[Diango12]

Their P.R. manifesto apparently consists of just one line, written in 72pt bold caps: maintain a smug air of disingenuous frustration at all times.

In the case of AAMFP not only have they dismissed all of the criticism (ALL of it) they've actually been misrepresenting it by claiming that everyone who criticised the game just wanted another TDD, or words to that effect. That they refuse to accept responsibility for creating that expectation themselves is what annoys the hell out of me:

Pre-release

Spoiler below!

"If we don't get as many cool YouTube videos of people having fits, then I'll be disappointed," Pinchbeck jokes.

---

And for all those Amnesia fans brave enough to return - can they expect a game at least as scary if not more so in A Machine for Pigs? Do you see that as a challenge for the next game?

DP: Yeah, I think if we don’t go all out to scare the living hell out of people then we’re doing something wrong.

---

RPS: What kind of things have to be in a game for it to be an Amnesia game?

Pinchbeck: It has to be absolutely, bone-shatteringly, terrifying.

---

"The thing is, if we don't frighten people as much as the original, then we've failed."

---

"We want this game to be absolutely skin-crawlingly, heart-shatteringly, and nerve-jarringly terrifying -- that's the target. Everything is geared around that. Just turning people to complete ice and making them have complete meltdowns," he added.

---

From the start, the plan has been to outdo The Dark Descent – a game that, while Pinchbeck loved, he felt frustrated by when it “held back” on occasion. “In a couple of places Frictional pulled up a bit short,” says Pinchbeck. “And I thought, no, you can really really push this.”

---

“People are really hungry for more Amnesia content,” says Pinchbeck, “and I think it would have been dishonest to basically say, ‘This is an Amnesia game,’ and then radically change the core of what Amnesia is about. There are tweaks, but Amnesia is standing there and slowly peaking around a corner, or hiding in a cupboard because you thought you heard a noise. We want to keep that core – the very psychological gameplay – or it wouldn’t be an Amnesia game, and that would be disrespectful to the fans.”

---

Post-release

Spoiler below!

Dan and I were talking about it yesterday, and he said "actually, I didn't want to make it as scary".

---

@ChineseRoom I like the new Amnesia because it feels more like a game than its predecessor. But I got much less creeped out as a result

@C418 yes, we wanted people to finish the game so had different priorities to the first. Glad you liked it

---

All of this:

http://www.edge-online.com/features/the-...g-concept/

---

Every single tweet from TCR which has responded to criticism - too many to paste here; too irritating to re-read at this early hour.

Exactly this. I enjoyed AMFP. I liked the atmosphere. Sound. Overall, twas a good game. But I've made my fair share of rants on this forum to express a frustration towards TCR's failure pre-release in the marketing game.

I've been frustrated by the way they are handling the criticism and when I read the tweets they make to address their customers they always misrepresent the complaints levied against them.

I obvisouly won't speak for them, but their jobs is to make games, not sit quietly and take loads of craps from strangers for free.

I disagree. They are a game company first. Sorry but when you enter into a market and start selling goods in exchange for tender to consumers, you sort of take on a greater responsibility.

[Alardem]

Backpedaling, emotional outbursts - I can understand why Pinchbeck and Curry may lash out, but outright insulting people on forums damages their credibility. It doesn't matter how self-righteous you feel - you're putting yourself on the same level as the 'LUL A PIGGYBACK FOR MACHINES 0/10" crowd. There is a way to address criticism without resorting to petty anger or dismissive straw-men.

(Which I just used, ironically.)

Nonetheless, I'm amazed that people want more of the same. This is still clearly an Amnesia game in many respects - a first-person historical horror story that mixes stealth, piecemeal story-telling and stupid enemies - and I'd much rather have something different than a regurgitation of Amnesia 1. I get way too much of that in franchises.

[grrrz]

I guess everything has been said here, but overall I don't like the notion that people are "client" of the "THe Chinese Room company" and that their 20 bucks give them such a sense of entitlement to harass them, track down everything they've said publicly and look closely to everything that looks like a contradiction. The Chinese Room is a few people operation, and they're allow to have humans flaws and reactions without being scrutinized over every little detail. If people can't express themselves with a healthy dose of anger (which was directed toward very specific people who got what they were looking for), just because they're supposed to represent their "company", and they're not "professional" then f** it.
This is not "a big license", this is not EA and Eidos, these are two small indie companies, and that's what you get when people get to express themselves freely, just like you get hundreds of hurtful comments, you're maybe gonna get a reply, and that reply won't have gone through a big team of PR speaking through the voice of a "community manager" with minimum wage whose only job is to play the sacrificial lamb to douchebags "clients".

[Paddy™]

I guess everything has been said here, but overall I don't like the notion that people are "client" of the "THe Chinese Room company" and that their 20 bucks give them such a sense of entitlement to harass them, track down everything they've said publicly and look closely to everything that looks like a contradiction. The Chinese Room is a few people operation, and they're allow to have humans flaws and reactions without being scrutinized over every little detail. If people can't express themselves with a healthy dose of anger (which was directed toward very specific people who got what they were looking for), just because they're supposed to represent their "company", and they're not "professional" then f** it.

None of this would even have come up had Jessica Curry not written an article which lamented how the critics were focusing on the lack of mechanics and scariness. That they focused on those things at all is The Chinese Room's own fault, as evidenced by their statements in the press since February 2012 up until the release of the game, which is why it was important to dig up those quotes; they're entirely responsible for any expectations gamers had about what AAMFP would be. The way they've reacted to the criticism would make you believe that they'd never said the things they demonstrably did say.

I loved the game and I disagree with 99.9% of the criticisms it has received, but I can't stand the pretentious hand-waving childishness of TCR when they act like they're being persecuted for having the audacity to "break the mould" of gaming when in reality they're just really bad at giving interviews.