Some personal thoughts on piracy (warning - long post)

[hollowleviathan]

If you have payed for the game before playing it (even the most minimum price) and it does not work the way it supposed to, I don't see problem with that.

That sounds like a familiar argument I made recently, Scraper...

In case you wonder why I edited your post:
I edited my previous post so I updated yours with now correct quote.

That's cheating! Also it may give the wrong perspective to what he was responding. I'd say just let your updated post speak for itself.

It's still possible to get refunds on games. I paid $60 for Starcraft II directly from Blizzard, played through the whole single player, thought it was a crappy story and not nearly worth 60 bucks, and called their billing and returned it for a full refund. (Only game I've returned ever). Seems kind of like I got the same experience a pirate did, but legally.

The immediate problem with FO3:NV and New Vegas-esque situations is the internet. Companies can now patch and update even console games now after release. So they make excuses and say they will, eventually. Back when release was it, (besides games being much simpler and easier to debug) they had to work or it was a disaster. The eventual problem is the monolithic nature of the game data. As soon as they stop making patches, the game doesn't get fixed. See also: Dark Messiah Might & Magic. Yet games that allow the fans to patch and update, are now working much much better than otherwise, like Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines.

[Yuhaney]

If you have payed for the game before playing it (even the most minimum price) and it does not work the way it supposed to, I don't see problem with that.

That sounds like a familiar argument I made recently, Scraper...

What do you mean?

In case you wonder why I edited your post:
I edited my previous post so I updated yours with now correct quote.

That's cheating! Also it may give the wrong perspective to what he was responding. I'd say just let your updated post speak for itself.

I didn't remove anything.
I just added few more words to make more point, and I did check that the post still makes the same point than it did before editing.

[hollowleviathan]

What do you mean?

I refer to the "Amnesia from Steam on Linux" thread.

[Yuhaney]

Ah, I see!

Well, that is different situation.
Since, if you bought version that works on Windows and Mac, you're not allowed illegaly to download Linux version, just because you noticed afterwards that there's this one available as well.
It was his own mistake, not Frictional Games' product failure.

If you understand what I mean.

[hollowleviathan]

I guess. It seems like splitting hairs. Why does one license of the game only include support for 2 OSes instead of all 3? And, confession time, I didn't read the EULA or terms, so is Amnesia a purchase or a license?

More on topic, the issue of massive bugs is only a reason to delay purchasing games for a month or two, not to get them illegally so you can shake your piratical fist in the air every time you experience those bugs, only without paying for it.

[Yuhaney]

Don't ask me, ask Valve.
I believe it's by purchase.

In my opinion, Frictional Games' store is better since it includes all 3 OS platforms with 1 purchase for Amnesia without DRM limitation.

[Nospheratu]

/kicks himself for starting a sh!tstorm

Let me again remind all of you that I did not pirate this game myself (If i did, I would admit it) - I got it from a friend who pirated it and i only wrote the original post becouse I was so moved by the effort of Frictional games, that I wanted to say these things: 1. I am so impressed by your product, that even thou I have already gotten it for free and played through it twice, I will buy it myself (when able) becouse you deserve it. 2. in regard to the first point, not all pirates just download stuff, use it and delete it (most do, but not all); some of us (i say "us" becouse I download stuff too sometimes) actually have the decency to buy the things that made a lasting impression on us. 3. Thus: If you manage to make a great product which leaves a lasting impression, chances are high that even a percentage of pirates will eventually buy your game, so - well done, Frictional.

I saw mentioned somewhere that if you buy the product a couple of weeks/months/years later, it isn't worth as much as when it was originally released. Well, DUH. So if buying something a few months/years after the release is such a problem, then what do we do with all the little babies today who will maybe buy and use the product over 20 years later? Do we magically warp them back in time, so that they can purchase the product on the release day? Also for instance: CD prices of "Queen" today are higher than they were when they recorded it, so if i would bootleg a record 20 years ago and today decide to buy the CD, I would spend more money than for the vinyl on the release day.

Delete it right away? You just admitted to beating a pirated game twice before considering purchasing it. So you can fuck off with that.

You pretty much just said "I don't pirate stuff stuff because it is not worth my money, I pirate everything to see if it is worth my money!"

I admited to having downloaded Warcraft 3, installing it on my disc, playing it through once, being impressed, playing it through again on hard mode, being impressed with the alternate ending as well and then (while the credits ran) saying to myself: "Wow, this game deserves to have it's place on my game shelf." I bought it in the same week.

Here is another problem: "You pretty much said". No, i didn't pretty much say something and then comes your interpretation, i explicitly wrote that SOMETIMES (not always) i find ONE THING (not everything) and if it seems of enough interest to me at that moment, i'll download it and TRY IT OUT, but if I don't like it, i'll delete it right away. Why? Becouse i know pretty much what kind of movies, music and games I like, so if I don't like something i downloaded in the first 5-10 minutes, I will not use it any further, since i don't like how it looks/sounds/plays. Do you really think that a grown up guy with a job and a life has the time, willpower and need to daily download gigabytes of all possible movies, games and music and store them on his computer, even if he has absolutely no interest in 99% of them? Why the hell for? To play/watch/listen to them when, during my sleep?

Downloading a pirate version if a disk gets scratched or if it does not work properly is fine. I see no problem with it... There is a difference between stealing and fixing.

This actually made me laugh
Let's say i download a pirated CD and - since i like it - keep it on my hard drive for a year. Somewhere during that year I decide to honor the musician's work by buying the original CD, which I then put on my shelf. At the next new years eve i have the original CD on my shelf and the mp3 folder on my computer. In this case I am a criminal.
In another version I go to the store and buy the CD straight away, then I use it for a year. After almost a year of usage it is so scratched, that it won't play properly, so I decide to download the pirated version and keep the songs on my hard drive. At the next new years eve I have the original CD on my shelf and the mp3 folder on my computer, but in this case I am innocent.

Anyway, I didn't intend to stir up so many reactions, so next time I'll better keep my fingers from typing too much; it wasn't meant as a trollbait or anything like that, so if this gets out of hand, you can close it Bye guys.

[hollowleviathan]

I did not pirate this game myself (If i did, I would admit it) - I got it from a friend who pirated it

You made a full copy of a game your friend had, or were given his pirated copy? Come on, you have to know that's still piracy.

Also for instance: CD prices of "Queen" today are much higher than they were when they recorded it, so if i would bootleg a record 20 years ago and today decide to buy the CD, I would spend a lot more money than for the vinyl on the release day.

In 1976 (A Night at the Opera), a record cost about 7 dollars new at a record store, according to the internet. Buying that album on a CD today is probably around 15. $7 in 1976 adjusted for inflation is $27.24 in 2010.

if I don't like something i downloaded in the first 10 minutes, I will not use it any further, since i don't like how it looks/sounds/plays.

That's far under the length of any demo I've heard of. Why not just use those legal means to try out a game?

This actually made me laugh
Let's say i download a pirated CD [...] In this case I am a criminal.
In another version I go to the store and buy the CD [...] but in this case I am innocent.

Yeah, that is really weird, isn't it?

Sorry, but you are not intelligent enough to continue arguing with a real man.

Well I am inteligent enough to have graduated from college and to work with computers, that must count for something Your comment regarding my lack of intelligence and you being a real man however tells me a lot about your own intelligence[.]

Let's all try not to personally attack each other, OK?

[Nospheratu]

You made a full copy of a game your friend had, or were given his pirated copy? Come on, you have to know that's still piracy.

Even if I buy the original game after I have finished it?

In 1976 (A Night at the Opera), a record cost about 7 dollars new at a record store, according to the internet. Buying that album on a CD today is probably around 15. $7 in 1976 adjusted for inflation is $27.24 in 2010.

So who's to tell which way money will go in the future? If a global catastrophe would happen, then food and water would be priceless while money, CD's, movies and games would be worthless.

That's far under the length of any demo I've heard of. Why not just use those legal means to try out a game?

Yes, i would if i knew about it, but i didn't (i don't usually play horror games), so i ended up finishing the game before even going to the official website. But since I got there and decided to buy it, the end effect is the same, i'd say

Let's all try not to personally attack each other, OK?

Didn't intend too, so I apologize if i offended anyone; I also said I won't go there, ergo not continue down that line. I'll edit this part out.

[hollowleviathan]

You made a full copy of a game your friend had, or were given his pirated copy? Come on, you have to know that's still piracy.

Even if I buy the original game after I have finished it?

That's moral piracy, and still illegal, although less condemnable. Assuming the pirate does buy the game, and don't just say that they could/will. If pirates really did buy the games they 'play tested' with 'full retail demos', I don't think anyone would make a stink about it.