Facebook Twitter YouTube Frictional Games | Forum | Privacy Policy | Dev Blog | Dev Wiki | Support | Gametee


Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut
Alardem Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 711
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 24
#1
New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-1...e-was-made

Fascinating stuff. I like how Pinchbeck acknowledges the inherent silliness in the premise of a mad scientist creating a supercomputer to control a race of walking pigs.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2013, 11:00 AM by Alardem.)
12-01-2013, 09:34 AM
Find
VaeVictis Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 569
Threads: 10
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 20
#2
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" was originally going to be like TDD's Insanity

Thanks for posting that!

Even so, you water down almost any other premise and it's usually pretty ridiculous, too. Mandus began to think of people as banal swine, so he made them as he saw them, and tried to do away with the rest.

12-01-2013, 10:41 AM
Find
Alardem Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 711
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 24
#3
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" was originally going to be like TDD'...

(12-01-2013, 10:41 AM)Abraxas Wrote: Thanks for posting that!

Even so, you water down almost any other premise and it's usually pretty ridiculous, too. Mandus began to think of people as banal swine, so he made them as he saw them, and tried to do away with the rest.

I'm fond of Pinchbeck's taste in 'low-brow' games and his belief that games can be an effective without imitating films. It's also pleasing to note that the comical elements ("How can a man shit so much blood?") to the horror were intentional. But I'm ambivalent about his removal of the infection theme - while it's true that an arbitrary mechanic like that would be exploitable, removing his illness' audio and visual effects ends up making Mandus appear less vulnerable. This ends up making his journal notes about his vomiting and his flashbacks regarding his condition seem disconnected from the fellow we play as.

I found this interview while browsing through tumblr discussions of the game. The tiny (and obsessive) community over there is devoting much more effort on analyzing the story as it is than complaining about what it was not. They don't withdraw from using their imagination through throwing ad hominem attacks on the creator being a smug 'hipster', or ask the writer to give an "official explanation" rather than think for themselves, or accuse the writing of being '2deep4u'/deliberately opaque - seeing how simplistic the story actually is, I'd say that reflects more on the accuser than the accused.

I only wish the official forum followed suit.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2013, 11:02 AM by Alardem.)
12-01-2013, 10:57 AM
Find
Ashtoreth Offline
Posting Freak

Posts: 1,278
Threads: 6
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 129
#4
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

I read this interview the other day when it was added to the AMFP Information Portal.


"The completion on Dark Descent was so massively low."

I wonder where the statistical data that supports Dan's affirmation can be found. The game might take a lot of time to complete for many players, because of how effectively scary it is, but it doesn't mean they don't finish it. Yes, I know that there are people who have never finished playing The Dark Descent, but using the word "massively" seems pretty exaggerated to me. He's trying too hard to justify why he decided to make AMFP less scary, to the point where he now resorts to claims he simply can't prove.

Did he ever stop to think that perhaps even less players who started Dear Esther felt compelled to reach the end of it? Making a game purposefully linear and simple for the sake of completion (in order to tell a complete story), doesn't guarantee that more people will finish it, no matter how wonderful and magnificent the story being told is.

Creative works like films, music, books, games, should NEVER be made by the artist with the thought of "completion" in mind. It's up to the audience to decide whether they want to experience the work from start to finish or not.

12-01-2013, 04:16 PM
Find
Alardem Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 711
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 24
#5
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

Quote:Creative works like films, music, books, games, should NEVER be made by the artist with the thought of "completion" in mind. It's up to the audience to decide whether they want to experience the work from start to finish or not.

That's misleading. So many films, games, shows and novels have great twist endings that rely on the audience paying attention throughout the story. They should NEVER be made under the assumption that the intended audience will skip out before completing it. If I got bored with Breaking Bad and turned it off five minutes into watching it, I can hardly complain if the end of the series means so little to me compared to the zillions who watch it.

I think perhaps your point is that the promise of a good ending alone, for a lot of people, isn't enough to make up for a boring introduction or dull middle. If you mean to say that the story should be paced well enough so that the audience genuinely wants to see it through out of curiosity rather than bloody-mindedness, I'd agree. I love the Mass Effect series' ability to let you personalize your own iteration of the protagonist, and want to replay with a markedly different personality. But I won't replay it for a long time, if at all, because of the sheer amount of mind-numbing hours of grinding that serve as gameplay in the first playthrough and then become intolerably dull subsequently.

Amnesia 1's endings were awful compared to Amnesia 2's one solid ending.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2013, 06:09 PM by Alardem.)
12-01-2013, 05:40 PM
Find
Paddy™ Offline
Posting Freak

Posts: 1,351
Threads: 43
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 224
#6
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

I think the point Ash was making is that the work shouldn't require the author to anticipate whether or not the audience will reach the end at all, nor for the author to alter the work accordingly. It shouldn't even be a consideration.

Dan intentionally making the game less scary so that people would stick with it to the end is an example of how wanting to keep people on board for the whole ride affects the overall work in a massive way. His initial vision, which was apparently much more frightening and Amnesiaesque, was shelved in favour of something else, for no reason other than wanting to ensure people got to the end. That's no way to approach any piece of art.

I also echo Ash's interest in finding out where this idea about "most" people not completing the game comes from. Sounds dubious to me, given how massively popular TDD is. For a game "most" people haven't finished it's sure done pretty well for itself, financially, critically and culturally! I'm not being flippant here, I would really love to know how anyone could possibly know the completion rate for TDD.
12-01-2013, 06:12 PM
Find
Alardem Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 711
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 24
#7
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

(12-01-2013, 06:12 PM)Paddy™ Wrote: I also echo Ash's interest in finding out where this idea about "most" people not completing the game comes from. Sounds dubious to me, given how massively popular TDD is. For a game "most" people haven't finished it's sure done pretty well for itself, financially, critically and culturally! I'm not being flippant here, I would really love to know how anyone could possibly know the completion rate for TDD.

I know that Steam records the total amount of hours played, but it assesses "completion" based off the number of 'achievements' fulfilled in a game. Amnesia doesn't have any 'achievements', so that method would not work. The number of scaredy-cats who claim they're too afraid/bored to finish the game should be a vocal minority, but I'm unsure.

Also, Amnesia 2 was not made "less scary" so much as it was made less difficult - the horror is most definitely there, but the aspects involving your character's interaction with the world are diminished. Game aspects like more frequent monster encounters (the audio interview with Pinchbeck reveals that a Pig would have attacked you within the first 5 minutes of gameplay), more complex level design, the Infection mechanic, resource hunting and harder puzzles were toned down. The interview acknowledges that they went too far in streamlining the game for the sake of progression, to the point that even unaccustomed newcomers i.e. non-gamers end up not scared during gameplay.

[Cue debate about "Casuals vs Hardcores"]
12-01-2013, 06:34 PM
Find
Paddy™ Offline
Posting Freak

Posts: 1,351
Threads: 43
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 224
#8
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

According to both Dan and Jessica, AAMFP was intentionally made less scary because of the [alleged] low completion rate of TDD. They've stated this explicitly in several places, including the interview we're discussing.

Dan's overkill approach to streamlining the game, making it easier and less puzzle-laden than TDD, is a separate problem.
12-01-2013, 07:13 PM
Find
Ashtoreth Offline
Posting Freak

Posts: 1,278
Threads: 6
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 129
#9
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

(12-01-2013, 06:12 PM)Paddy™ Wrote: I think the point Ash was making is that the work shouldn't require the author to anticipate whether or not the audience will reach the end at all, nor for the author to alter the work accordingly. It shouldn't even be a consideration.

Yes, this was exactly what I meant to say. Wink

12-01-2013, 08:55 PM
Find
plutomaniac Offline
Super Moderator

Posts: 6,368
Threads: 45
Joined: May 2011
Reputation: 183
#10
RE: New Interview on AMFP - "Infection" Mechanic Was Cut

(12-01-2013, 07:13 PM)Paddy™ Wrote: According to both Dan and Jessica, AAMFP was intentionally made less scary because of the [alleged] low completion rate of TDD. They've stated this explicitly in several places, including the interview we're discussing.

Dan's overkill approach to streamlining the game, making it easier and less puzzle-laden than TDD, is a separate problem.

Yes exactly, I agree with Paddy and Ash. Dan says that a lot of people did not finish the game. Where did that conclusion came from? From my experience over the last two years I've never heard anyone claiming that the game is too scary to be finished. Maybe for a very small percentage, definitely not on such a large scale.

I don't have a problem with the Pigs, I actually really liked the game and was glad I bought it. I can accept that it's a story-driven game and yes that means that scariness might not be the same but saying the "not finishing Amnesia TDD" thing is just an excuse in my opinion.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2013, 01:46 PM by plutomaniac.)
12-01-2013, 11:16 PM
Find




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)