[SPOILER] Plot Discussion Thread *Spoiler Alert*

[grrrz]

Phew, have been reading through the 50 pages for the last 2 hours and now I will add my own thoughts to the story.

----------------------

Mandus went to Mexico in February 1899, returning in March. The game takes place December 31st 1899. Am I the only one wondering how this really huge machine could've been built in such a short period of time? It's simply impossible imho. I mean ok, the artifact might have helped with the plans, but the actual work had to be done, and judged by the limited possibilitys in that age -> no way! Even today it would take way more time to complete such a complex.

So he went on the journey with the kids, already in a weakend state of mind according to some of the notes (money problems etc). He finds an artefact and the artefact drives him even more crazy.
If Orb or not doesn't play a vital role in this I believe, maybe it was an Orb to link the story to be set in the same universe as TDD, but no more. He has visions of the future. He returns with his two sons still alive, but is more weak than ever and becomes bedridden (there are notes from Jeremiah about this). The visions about his dead wife and the future of his sons are driving him even more into madness. So in his mind the machine is building up, a manifestiation of the madness in it's fortress.

So anytime later he actually kills/or try to kill his sons. The "machine" (aka his crazy side) takes over for a second and he kills/tries to kill them. I say try/tries because I am not sure if they are really dead if my understanding of the events is in any form true.
Understanding what he has done leaves him in an state of hibernation. In his mind, the "machines" rage continues and his darkest fantasies driven by his neverending guilt and disgust of himself reflected on all of humanity (->manpig) come true. In my opionion he is sitting somewhere in a sanatorium or even at home in bed. But we never see the true reality in this game.

It's also interesting that he has this conversations with the professor. I think he is in the real world, he trys to help him. But the machine kills of every voice of reason and throws them into himsef. But maybe the professor pushed through for a second and for a short glimpse his sanity pushes also through and wants to undone everything.
So the last sane part of himself goes on a journey, and that is where our game begins.

In my opinion (and that was already mentioned by others) the machine doesn't exist. It is an embodiment of Mandus mind INSIDE Mandus mind. He is on a journey into his own mind to regain conciousness. All the notes we find contain information from the real world but they are intermingled and/or rewritten with stuff the "machine" did in his mind (the slaughtering ect). I mean seriously, inside the church are two statuettes of the holy mother displayed with pigfaces and holding little pigs breastfeeding on their dugs. If you would build a church like that for real you are in big trouble as soon as someone sees that and talks to certain people. In that age people still were much more religious than these days and this is some of the highest forms of blasphemy. These are all signs for me that this is not happening in the real world.

And in the end, he encounters his dark part in the iron lung. He is about to win back the conciousness, sanity is restoring fast. The "machine" is begging, but he knows what to do. The title of the last chapter has been already discussed, it is named "Edwin, Enoch, Oswald and I".

I (Mandus) is us, the player, the sane part.
Edwin literally means "belonging friend".
Enoch is a mysterious biblic shape which is taken from the earth (disappeared) before it's dead(!).

You can read all this on Wikipedia.

The man on the phone NEVER says Oswald. We are only approached as Mandus. So the man in the iron lung is Oswald, the dark twin, his crazy side. The heart in the southern Tower is Oswald's. He didn't need it anymore, only to power his hatred and rage. Destroying it brings us right to the source of this hatred and rage. And in the end Mandus realised that he had to do the same to restore the balance.

Conclusion: The final words about a dying god and a silence never known is a mind finally at peace. Through all the madness he hears way up in the real world the bells ringing for the birth of the new century while the manpigs are drifting away to silence. And in the last cut we se again the twins (that's why I don't know if they are really dead), and maybe Oswald Mandus (now restored as a whole) has a vision of the two, walking into a future he knows he is no longer part of.

----------------------------

I know, lot of thoughts. Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe you can interpret yourself to madness while trying to understand everything. I enjoyed the game a lot, it still has a lasting effect on me (as we can see) and this won't change so soon. I love the machine, so I also have no problem if it is real.
Looking forward to read more of your thoughts and discussing my own!

Indeed there's so much part of the game that's completely surreal and symbolic, that the 'it's all in his head' explanation would be the most satisfactory one. The "logic" in the game can mostly be found in the symbolism. If at least all the events in the game aren't really happening (I have a strong feeling about this), then what part of the real world sunk into it, does he really have kids, did he really go to Mexico? Did he really turned people into pigs?
Again the many James Tilly Matthews reference
discussed here
http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thr...#pid260545
and the graphical depiction of the Machine (see here)
http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thr...#pid261440
suggest the whole machine is a struggle happing inside his head, and like James Tilly Matthews, he invents characters fitting his mental state (the engineer, Oswald, and maybe his children).
Again somewhere in the office he says something like "it seems like a carefully crafted factory but fake"
(and later "it seems like I'm in a big game")
There's also a troubling parrallel between Him/his double and his twins,
and the fact we hear "daddy don't kill me" at the beginning so the son could be other projections of himself. maybe too far fetched.
Also he could really be inside the iron lung, somewhere in a hospital, with a serious disease (maybe from mexico) , the iron lung becoming in his mind this convoluted machine.
In all these scenario the "Professor" seems to be real (we hear the conversations like bits of memory), and the moment he's killed would indicates he's definitely cut-off from reality.
all of this doesn't mean there couldn't be some kind of coherence inside his mental construction.