Deus Ex

[spukrian]

Deus Ex is a game that I think is great. In this thread I will outline why.

First, what is Deus Ex? It's a game that takes place in a post-cyberpunk future, dealing with age-old conspiracies and secret societies. It is played mostly from the First Person viewpoint and has elements of RPGs, shooters and stealth games.

What about the story? The game takes place in ca 2050. Terrorism is widespread and global, all the while a disease called Grey Death is decimating the population. there is a vaccine, called Ambrosia, but it is in short supply and high demand. You play J.C. Denton, a rookie agent for UNATCO (the United Nations Anti-Terrorist Coalition). JC is a part of a new breed of soldier, he is infused with nanites that can increase his performance in various ways (after you upgrade them, of course). He and his brother Paul are the prototypes, they're supposed to replace the older mechanical/electrical cyborgs.

What about gameplay? You play JC Denton. In the beginning you get to choose his real name (not really used in the game IIRC) and his skin color. Then you get to spend Skill Points on any of the skills, mostly combat skills but of course other skills (like Computers, Lockpicking, etc).

Then you're dumped into the first mission of the game. Terrorists have hijacked a shipment of Ambrosia and are occupying the Statue of Liberty. You are free to deal with this in any way you see fit: Do you sneak around unseen? Do you knock everyone out from behind? Do you snipe people from the shadows? Or do you just go in guns blazing?

After securing part of that Ambrosia shipment, you get to go in to New York. This is a Hub level. You can go around exploring, talking to people and do "sidequests". Then you get to do more missions and after a while you get to visit new locations around the globe.

Why do like Deus Ex? Because of the freedom. I like games where I get to decide for myself what I should do. I also like sneaking around, which I am able to do in Deus Ex. I also like the RPG aspects, developing skills, dialogue trees. Deus Ex offers choices and consequences, although in a limited fashion.

Of course, there are negative things about Deus Ex. Like the intro movie, which kind of spoils most of the game. And in the beginning of the game there is a strong pacifist message that dissapears suddenly. The game misrepresents certain parts of conspiracy theory lore, but I guess that's artistic licence.

Deus Ex has two sequels:
Invisible War takes place about 20 years after Deus Ex. It "streamlined" many things: smaller levels, removed the skills, etc. In general it is seen as an inferior sequel. Personally I enjoy it a lot, but it's not as good as the original.

Human Revolution: Released recently, this is a prequel. I haven't played it yet. My impression is that most fans likes the game more than Invisible War though.

So, what are your thoughts?

[JMFStorm]

Human Revolution was great. I've played it four times from start to finish

[Adny]

I haven't played the original, but I have played Human Revolution. I thought it was very fun; the game play (or at least the way I played it) was very reminiscent of the original Splinter Cell games when they were actually based around stealth. Direct combat was very unforgiving though, so boss fights were a PITA. I enjoyed the feeling of progression as the story advanced because of the way you could upgrade your character based on your own play style (i.e. you could upgrade your weapons/health if you prefer confrontation, or you could upgrade stealth abilities if you're the sneaky type).

As for the story, it started out pretty good, you could even choose how to react to different situations via dialogue choices. But the end of the story really just messed it up for me:

Spoiler below!

It basically turns into a generic zombie shooter by the end, it didn't line up with the rest of the story very well; almost as if the writers gave up in the end

Also, there are 3 (or 4) endings, each accompanied by some pretty deep messages.

Overall, I'd give the game a 4 out of 5.

[the dark side]

My Personal Thaughts are that, Deus Ex 1 is the best, as it is pretty much what i consider a "perfect" game, by combining Superb Storytelling, Mind Blowing Graphics for its time, and most importantly for me, Superb Gameplay.

For me, Deus Ex 1 comes in at Number 2 on my top three PC games of all time, (off topic: 1=Half Life (original), 2.=Deus Ex 1, 3=The Operative: No One Lives Forever, on my personal list, that is some seriously big calibre company!). Deus Ex 1 is for me, a game that shows were i think the First person Shooter Should have gone, Combining the sort of gunplay and challenge that makes games like DOOM, Quake, and Serious Sam Great, adding in stealth elements of such perfection that even Hideo Kojima probably goes green with envy at them, mixes in the Freedom of games like Grand Theft Auto, thanks to some very large free roaming hubs and exquiste open plan levels, and then drops in a hefty slug of RPG. what "totalhalibut" Describes as "a thinking mans shooter" (off topic: mentioned in his "WTF IS..." review of "Serious Sam 3" (wich he gave a deserving 9) on "the cynical brit", him and totalBiscuit are ace!.)

on the small matter of Invisible war vs Human Revolution, i, and im the odd one out, actually prefer invisible war. due to the fact it retained a very old school First Person shooter experience with medpacks, unlimited armouries, Zoom Aim, fixed hairs, Etc, wich is what i prefer personally (i personally find the COD like gameplay in Human Revolution to be "UNPLAYABLE"!) . in terms of storyline, it is very poor, short and cliched, and due to its streamlined design, it is very poor as a Deus EX game, but, on its own merits, as a First Person Shooter, its a really fun and enjoyable "run and gun" game. not a "thinking mans shooter" like the original but still a good fun shooter all the same.

Human Revolution is not the sort of game i enjoy, as its too like call of duty in terms of its gameplay for my tastes (Regen health, 2 gun limit, expanding crosshairs (wich are the main issue because they make me nauseus!), controll hints, Quick time Events, Aim Down Sites, Corridor like level design (ok, so its rather open plan compared to most modern shooters, but it still boils dowwn to 5 or 6 corridors tied together round a few central arenas, think the "Facility" level in Goldeneye 64, open plan to me is a massive wide open arena with buildings in it, think Serious Sam) "bloody Screen" effect, all the gameplay elements i personally find to be game ruiners!), and "call of duty" is a style of gameplay i personally cannot stand, so, despite the fact Human Revolution has a pretty decent storyline from what i have seen in reviews (miles better than the almost B movie Invisible war, but still a stinker compared to the original) it is far too typical of a modern "hand holding" COD-Clone in terms of its gameplay to deserve the Deus Ex name in my eyes.

for me Deus Ex 1 is a true legend, one of the best games ever made, and one i will probably still be playing on a holographic rendition of an old "computer" on "the holodeck" when i go to the old folks home many years from now, but for me, the franchise ended with Deus Ex 1, as for me, neither of its sequals have deserved the name in my opinion.

[Bridge]

@andyrockin123:

Actually it's possible to ghost that final section and I actually did. I almost got the Foxiest of the Hounds achievement (playing on Steam) but one of the robots in the final boss battle saw me and I just said who cares. So, it's possible and not too difficult to do all of the main missions without being seen, though it takes a lot of reloads.

@the dark side:

I just don't understand how you can say it's a CoD clone. 1. The protagonist is more machine than human so regenerating health is not far fetched at all.

2. I don't remember there being a two gun limit… pretty sure you can carry as much as your inventory space allows and assign any number of guns to the numerical hotkeys. I hoarded guns all of the time to sell for cash.

3. Control hints are useful dude. I don't want to spend unnecessary time looking at the bindings (though I usually do) just to learn the controls when it can be made part of the game. I don't understand why you think control hints make it worse, just because you prefer to figure it out for yourself? Then disable the hints and the problem is solved.

4. There are no quicktime events. Are you talking about pressing Q to kill and holding Q to knock out? That's a contextual control prompt, not a quicktime event.

5. What is an "Aim Down Site"?

And I don't want to comment on the others. The "bloody screen effect" is an artistic choice and it has been used in many games both mainstream and underground. I don't see how that makes it a CoD clone… Also you do know that most buildings do have corridors, right? I didn't find that all of the areas (or even most of them) just consisted of corridors; the architecture was quite well done I thought. Plus, you can almost spend the entire game in the vents if you choose so that point is moot.

Anyway, even if all of the things you mentioned are flaws you cannot forget its strong points:

1. Good story.
2. Great, believable voice acting and dynamic dialogue.
3. Smooth controls and satisfying stealth gameplay.
4. Great score.
5. Good level design (in my opinion) and cool art direction.

I thought the gameplay was definitely misguided in some areas, but I consider this game great for these reasons. It's one of the deepest games made in recent years and definitely packs more of an emotional punch than the original Deus Ex that was laughably convoluted (though interesting) with stiff performances. I think the problem is that you just assumed it was going to be a CoD clone and played it like that, instead of exploring all of the many possible options.

[spukrian]

Deus Ex 1 is for me, a game that shows were i think the First person Shooter Should have gone, Combining the sort of gunplay and challenge that makes games like DOOM, Quake, and Serious Sam Great

The gunplay in Deus Ex is quite different to that in Doom & Quake (haven't played Serious Sam). The system in Deus Ex is skillbased, I'll return to this later in the post...

on the small matter of Invisible war vs Human Revolution, i, and im the odd one out, actually prefer invisible war. due to the fact it retained a very old school First Person shooter experience with medpacks, unlimited armouries, Zoom Aim, fixed hairs, Etc,

Some of the design decisions in Invisible War was good. Limiting inventory meant you couldn't carry around everything you wanted, you had to limit your arsenal. The same with the nanotech augmentations, having less slots meant you actually had to choose between two good augmentations (instead of like in Deus Ex, where you can take all the good augs and throw away the bad ones). About the crosshairs, see below...

expanding crosshairs

Ok, you mention this a couple of times. I thought I understood what you meant but apparently I didn't.

What do you mean by "expanding crosshairs"? I haven't played Human Revolution, and I haven't played any CoD either, that's why I want to know. In the other thread you called them "Dynamic Scaling crosshairs".

What I like to say is that while Invisible War did have fixed crosshairs, Deus Ex didn't really. In Deus Ex accuracy is based on skill, the crosshair reflects this. It is harder to aim while moving, the crosshair also reflects this. I would call that "dynamic" and the crosshair does "expand" when you run.

definitely packs more of an emotional punch than the original Deus Ex that was laughably convoluted (though interesting) with stiff performances.

Ok, some voice acting in Deus Ex isn't all that stellar, but please elaborate what you mean by laughably convoluted?

[Bridge]

definitely packs more of an emotional punch than the original Deus Ex that was laughably convoluted (though interesting) with stiff performances.

Ok, some voice acting in Deus Ex isn't all that stellar, but please elaborate what you mean by laughably convoluted?

It's definitely been a while, but I remember the game's plot being a jumbled mess of conspiracies that's hard to follow. I at least don't remember what it was about only two years after playing. I didn't mean to undermine it by saying it's laughable, but it was a little ambitious I think.

[spukrian]

It's definitely been a while, but I remember the game's plot being a jumbled mess of conspiracies that's hard to follow. I at least don't remember what it was about only two years after playing. I didn't mean to undermine it by saying it's laughable, but it was a little ambitious I think.

Well, that might be the case, but I personally didn't really have a problem following the plot in the game.

Anyway...


I never uninstall Deus Ex though.

[the dark side]

I REALLY hope this is not necro. ok. here we go with the explantions, first, ive been away for 2 weeks, with no acess to the internet, hence the very late reply.

@ spukrian, yes, Deus ex had crosshairs that expanded with movement, so did NOLF/NOLF 2/JACK, SOF II, IGI 2 ETC, but the expansion effect in all those games could be turned OFF, leaving them as old fashioned "fixed" hairs. I have no problem with expanding crosshairs when they can be switched off!

its when they cannot be turned off, and you have to use them i get into difficulties. "Expanding crosshairs" is the mainstream way of desribing the animation element of crosshairs that expand and contract when you move and or fire, "Dynamic scaling" is just its technical term, basically, any form of crosshair that expands or contracts based on movement or when firing are "expanding" crosshairs, that employ a "Dynamic Scaling" graphical effect to animate them and programming to talk to the "physics" model to make your shots go off target.

my main issue is the constantly moving lines cause me to get VERY dizzy quite quickly, so if a game has them, not only do i have the sheer problem of not being able to shoot for tofee from the hip (wich is a real problem with my rather "died in the wool" playstyle), but also the fact i cant play for more than 20 minuites before the room goes upside down on me. they have to be either fixed, or fixed by an option if i am to play for any length of time. they are a true Game Killer for me, because they kill my ability to actually Play the game because they cause me to suffer from "focal distraction" wich bings on a massive dizzy spell.

yes, with the dynamic scaling on, the gunplay in Deus Ex 1 is rather more close to a more modern title, you have to wait for the gun to steady, but, when they are turned Off, wich is how i play as i am unable to play with them on without getting sick, it goes back to being a more old fashioned circle straffe bunny hop type shooter.

I Describe Human Revolution as a Call of Duty clone, because its "gameplay" uses the same Main Elements as Call of Duty, 3 of wich make the game downright unplayable for me, namely the Health Regeneration, the Expanding Crosshairs, and the Aim Down Sites System. to me, if a game uses the main health and shooting elements from call of duty, then to me, thats all it is, call of duty. an insipid clone of one of the worst gaming franchises Ever created.

@ bridge, "Aim down Sites" [sic] is where you aim down the iron-sights of the gun, meaning the gun blocks the whole screen, based on the US army style of aiming down the gun with only one eye open, as opposed to the british Army's way of aiming down the gun with Both eyes open (wich actually creates an effect not unlike the old style system where the camara zoomed down the side of the gun, giving good periphial vision, and a clear view down the sights, (my father informed me of this, although i am unable to serve in the armed forces, he however, could and did) my main issue is that sudden loss of periphial vision sends my brain into INSTANT panic.

basically, the system leaves me unable to cope with the game, wich sends me into a full bore autistic meltdown. unfortunatly, in many modern games, because the dynamic scaling effect means you cannot fire from the hip and expect to hit anything smaller than the broad side of a viktor 3 podlovka at point blank range, you have to use them, wich is what makes any game that uses the ADS (Aim Down Sights) effect, when combined with Mandatory expanding crosshairs, wich is 90% of shooters post 2006 due to the industries obssession with making games play like call of duty, wich is the game that made Forcing those elements popular.

they literally make games UNPLAYABLE for me. i just dont see why the games industry doesnt just take the time to THINK about people who have autism, as Many of us have the same focal distraction and visual panic issues with dynamic scaling and ADS, and bring back the option to turn the "dynamic scaling" OFF. it would take 5 minuites of programming, if that!

[Bridge]

I REALLY hope this is not necro. ok. here we go with the explantions, first, ive been away for 2 weeks, with no acess to the internet, hence the very late reply.

@ spukrian, yes, Deus ex had crosshairs that expanded with movement, so did NOLF/NOLF 2/JACK, SOF II, IGI 2 ETC, but the expansion effect in all those games could be turned OFF, leaving them as old fashioned "fixed" hairs. I have no problem with expanding crosshairs when they can be switched off!

its when they cannot be turned off, and you have to use them i get into difficulties. "Expanding crosshairs" is the mainstream way of desribing the animation element of crosshairs that expand and contract when you move and or fire, "Dynamic scaling" is just its technical term, basically, any form of crosshair that expands or contracts based on movement or when firing are "expanding" crosshairs, that employ a "Dynamic Scaling" graphical effect to animate them and programming to talk to the "physics" model to make your shots go off target.

my main issue is the constantly moving lines cause me to get VERY dizzy quite quickly, so if a game has them, not only do i have the sheer problem of not being able to shoot for tofee from the hip (wich is a real problem with my rather "died in the wool" playstyle), but also the fact i cant play for more than 20 minuites before the room goes upside down on me. they have to be either fixed, or fixed by an option if i am to play for any length of time. they are a true Game Killer for me, because they kill my ability to actually Play the game because they cause me to suffer from "focal distraction" wich bings on a massive dizzy spell.

yes, with the dynamic scaling on, the gunplay in Deus Ex 1 is rather more close to a more modern title, you have to wait for the gun to steady, but, when they are turned Off, wich is how i play as i am unable to play with them on without getting sick, it goes back to being a more old fashioned circle straffe bunny hop type shooter.

I Describe Human Revolution as a Call of Duty clone, because its "gameplay" uses the same Main Elements as Call of Duty, 3 of wich make the game downright unplayable for me, namely the Health Regeneration, the Expanding Crosshairs, and the Aim Down Sites System. to me, if a game uses the main health and shooting elements from call of duty, then to me, thats all it is, call of duty. an insipid clone of one of the worst gaming franchises Ever created.

@ bridge, "Aim down Sites" [sic] is where you aim down the iron-sights of the gun, meaning the gun blocks the whole screen, based on the US army style of aiming down the gun with only one eye open, as opposed to the british Army's way of aiming down the gun with Both eyes open (wich actually creates an effect not unlike the old style system where the camara zoomed down the side of the gun, giving good periphial vision, and a clear view down the sights, (my father informed me of this, although i am unable to serve in the armed forces, he however, could and did) my main issue is that sudden loss of periphial vision sends my brain into INSTANT panic.

basically, the system leaves me unable to cope with the game, wich sends me into a full bore autistic meltdown. unfortunatly, in many modern games, because the dynamic scaling effect means you cannot fire from the hip and expect to hit anything smaller than the broad side of a viktor 3 podlovka at point blank range, you have to use them, wich is what makes any game that uses the ADS (Aim Down Sights) effect, when combined with Mandatory expanding crosshairs, wich is 90% of shooters post 2006 due to the industries obssession with making games play like call of duty, wich is the game that made Forcing those elements popular.

they literally make games UNPLAYABLE for me. i just dont see why the games industry doesnt just take the time to THINK about people who have autism, as Many of us have the same focal distraction and visual panic issues with dynamic scaling and ADS, and bring back the option to turn the "dynamic scaling" OFF. it would take 5 minuites of programming, if that!

Then ghost the game, like I did. The only time I ever used a gun was for the boss fights and a few side-quests so I didn't even notice the crosshairs. Like Deus Ex 1, sneaking around is a viable and often preferable M.O. and if you think it's a CoD clone it's only because you're playing it like one. Look, I really am sorry you are incapable of enjoying the combat (it must suck) but why are you so set on ignoring all of the positive aspects? Dynamic scaling crosshairs and "aim down sites" are not related to the story, voice acting or art direction. I personally enjoyed these aspects far more than the gameplay (though the stealth gameplay was very well done). Was the game just so terrible you couldn't enjoy them?