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Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism
Alardem Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

What that really indicates to me is that the established fan-base is hating on a sequel that wasn't a clone of the first game. Give it a few more months and the scores should even out.

Again, we're going back to the discussion about whether this game would fare better if it wasn't billed as a follow-up to Amnesia. Personally, it SHOULDN'T matter and I tend to love sequels that don't directly emulate the original (all the better to get new fans), but apparently people were expecting Amnesia 1 all over again.

I think that if it were up to the fans, we'd have a story about Daniel going to another haunted castle and getting hunted by red goop. Again.
09-25-2013, 03:58 AM
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Fortigurn Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 03:58 AM)Alardem Wrote: What that really indicates to me is that the established fan-base is hating on a sequel that wasn't a clone of the first game. Give it a few more months and the scores should even out.

That ignores the detailed comments people have made. The most common objections are not that the game 'wasn't a clone of the first game'.

Quote:I think that if it were up to the fans, we'd have a story about Daniel going to another haunted castle and getting hunted by red goop. Again.

No, if it were up to the fans the player would be more involved in the game, would have their hand held a lot less, and would be able to interact more with the environment.
09-25-2013, 04:02 AM
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Alardem Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 04:02 AM)Fortigurn Wrote: That ignores the detailed comments people have made. The most common objections are not that the game 'wasn't a clone of the first game'.

The details of those comments essentially boil down to 'this thing from Amnesia 1 wasn't in Amnesia 2', so yeah. :p

Quote:I
No, if it were up to the fans the player would be more involved in the game, would have their hand held a lot less, and would be able to interact more with the environment.

I wish you were right, because that's something I want too. Unfortunately, one thing I'm seeing a lot is that people are whining that the story has nothing to do with the original (because they were on auto-pilot) or that elements that Frictional themselves had second thoughts about (voice-overs in notes, insanity mechanic) were not included.

I wonder what would happen if it wasn't made public that TCR was behind A Machine For Pigs. I personally thought that Dear Esther was boring and not worth the 10 dollars I wasted on it, but AMFP was actually a great synthesis of horror and narrative. Unfortunately, a lot of people throw accusations at AMFP being a 'walking simulator', an accusation that doesn't actually make much sense.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2013, 04:19 AM by Alardem.)
09-25-2013, 04:13 AM
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Kreekakon Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

Remember, any sort of user, or review based scores, or average scores are for consideration only. What matters most is how you personally feel about the game, and you shouldn't have to feel any bad if your opinion is different from the general one.

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09-25-2013, 04:40 AM
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Fortigurn Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 04:13 AM)Alardem Wrote: The details of those comments essentially boil down to 'this thing from Amnesia 1 wasn't in Amnesia 2', so yeah. :p

No they're not just saying that. They aren't objecting to the absence of X because X was in TDD, they're objecting to the absence of X because X is what made the gameplay great, and what made TDD great.

Quote:I wonder what would happen if it wasn't made public that TCR was behind A Machine For Pigs.

People would still have said player should be more involved in the game, should have their hand held a lot less, and should be able to interact more with the environment.

The fact is TDD was extremely well received in part because it broke with the current trend of dumbing down games. Instead it involved the player directly with the environment, at an intellectual level as well as a direct interactive level. It provided genuine choices, there were sometimes alternative paths or methods to secure objectives, there was a set of game mechanics balanced carefully against each other to enhance immersion and challenge the player (light, sanity, consumable resources, visibility to monsters), good puzzle complexity, and a hub design providing a satisfying degree of free roaming. The player had the kind of control over their character which enhances immersion, instead of being pushed along rails from one cut scene to the next.

This was precisely what Frictional aimed at, as described by Thomas in an interview entitled 'Amnesia creator wishes fewer games were “something that a ten-year-old can enjoy”'. When TCR removed several game mechanics which were in TDD, simplified puzzles, reduced interaction with the environment, included far more hints, pushed the player along a linear path, increased the number of cut scenes and other moments during which the player was not in control, they departed from precisely what made TDD so refreshing and satisfying to its fan base. They also exposed themselves to the criticism of dumbing down Amnesia, which is one of the most commonly found complaints about MFP.

Thomas' description here about one of the essential elements of a good video game, is precisely where MFP fails to deliver.

Quote:My view is that the main point of interaction in storytelling is to create a sense of presence, the feeling of being inside the game's world. In order to achieve this, there needs to be a steady flow of active play. If the player remains inactive for longer periods, they will distance themselves from the experience. This is especially true during sections when players feel they ought to be in control. The game must always strive to maintain and strengthen experience of "being there".

Whether you read professional reviews or casual forum comments, the failure of MFP to live up to this specific aspect of gameplay is a sentiment echoed repeatedly in critiques of MFP. I believe it's a valid criticism.
09-25-2013, 04:49 AM
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Paddy™ Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 04:49 AM)Fortigurn Wrote: Whether you read professional reviews or casual forum comments, the failure of MFP to live up to this specific aspect of gameplay is a sentiment echoed repeatedly in critiques of MFP. I believe it's a valid criticism.

I agree with this. I loved the game and wouldn't change anything about it, but I think it's naïve and simplistic (and perhaps even a little bit arrogant) to lump all of the criticism together into one big pile and stick a flag in it labelled "insecure TDD fanboy whining".
09-25-2013, 05:08 AM
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Lazoriss Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

I can understand the dislike of the game being "on rails". One of the great things about TDD was that your thoughts and opinions have a lot of impact regarding your character and the story. You have no journal entries in-game other than vague hints (always regarding towards puzzles), but nothing is forced on you as a character. Your feelings and opinions are Daniel's, too. You get to decide what kind of person he has become, and can reflect that by the actions you take in the game. In AMFP, that is taken away from you. Mandus writes a journal entry of how he feels every couple minutes, effectively reducing your control over the game. You control Mandus, yes, but you don't quite PLAY as him. This is also why multiple endings would have made no sense in this game. You have zero control over the story or the character's overall perception, so why throw in a massive decision at the very end?

I still really liked AMFP. Even though it is, at heart, an interactive novel, it's a damn good story and had a few tense moments I greatly enjoyed. I was actually pretty disappointing with it for about the first hour since it wasn't what I had expected. But once I accepted it for what it was I ended up having a good time. c:
09-25-2013, 05:39 AM
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Ghieri Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 05:08 AM)Paddy Wrote:
(09-25-2013, 04:49 AM)Fortigurn Wrote: Whether you read professional reviews or casual forum comments, the failure of MFP to live up to this specific aspect of gameplay is a sentiment echoed repeatedly in critiques of MFP. I believe it's a valid criticism.

I agree with this. I loved the game and wouldn't change anything about it, but I think it's naïve and simplistic (and perhaps even a little bit arrogant) to lump all of the criticism together into one big pile and stick a flag in it labelled "insecure TDD fanboy whining".

There's also the fact that I paid money expecting a more TDD-like experience promised to me by the trailers. So I have every right to be pissed if I didn't feel like I got my money's worth.

I have no idea why that concept doesn't sink in with some people.

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09-25-2013, 05:47 AM
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VaeVictis Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 05:47 AM)Alidigigarry Wrote:
(09-25-2013, 05:08 AM)Paddy Wrote:
(09-25-2013, 04:49 AM)Fortigurn Wrote: Whether you read professional reviews or casual forum comments, the failure of MFP to live up to this specific aspect of gameplay is a sentiment echoed repeatedly in critiques of MFP. I believe it's a valid criticism.

I agree with this. I loved the game and wouldn't change anything about it, but I think it's naïve and simplistic (and perhaps even a little bit arrogant) to lump all of the criticism together into one big pile and stick a flag in it labelled "insecure TDD fanboy whining".

There's also the fact that I paid money expecting a more TDD-like experience promised to me by the trailers. So I have every right to be pissed if I didn't feel like I got my money's worth.

I have no idea why that concept doesn't sink in with some people.

You're right, disappointment follows when expectations aren't met. At the same time, though, couldn't the fact that it's different be a good thing? Did it HAVE to be a TDD experience to be good? For me, the answer is 'no.' But of course, you're entitled to feel otherwise. Amnesia is far too young a game to have an idiom of it's own. The biggest factor for me was orininality, storytelling, and overall reaction (not necessarily fear, my gut still turns thinking about some of those notes...). The music still brings a tear to my eye.
TDD found a winning formula, no doubt. But that doesn't make it the only one that works.
09-25-2013, 07:35 AM
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Mechavomit Offline
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RE: Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

(09-25-2013, 07:35 AM)Abraxas Wrote:
(09-25-2013, 05:47 AM)Alidigigarry Wrote:
(09-25-2013, 05:08 AM)Paddy Wrote:
(09-25-2013, 04:49 AM)Fortigurn Wrote: Whether you read professional reviews or casual forum comments, the failure of MFP to live up to this specific aspect of gameplay is a sentiment echoed repeatedly in critiques of MFP. I believe it's a valid criticism.



I agree with this. I loved the game and wouldn't change anything about it, but I think it's naïve and simplistic (and perhaps even a little bit arrogant) to lump all of the criticism together into one big pile and stick a flag in it labelled "insecure TDD fanboy whining".



There's also the fact that I paid money expecting a more TDD-like experience promised to me by the trailers. So I have every right to be pissed if I didn't feel like I got my money's worth.



I have no idea why that concept doesn't sink in with some people.
You're right, disappointment follows when expectations aren't met. At the same time, though, couldn't the fact that it's different be a good thing? Did it HAVE to be a TDD experience to be good? For me, the answer is 'no.' But of course, you're entitled to feel otherwise. Amnesia is far too young a game to have an idiom of it's own. The biggest factor for me was orininality, storytelling, and overall reaction (not necessarily fear, my gut still turns thinking about some of those notes...). The music still brings a tear to my eye.

TDD found a winning formula, no doubt. But that doesn't make it the only one that works.
The fact that it's different can also be a bad thing.
There are actually people, who criticize it for what it is, not for what it should have been. They criticize it's storytelling and pacing. Believe me, those are the people who are all in for the story and somehow this one didn't satisfy them.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2013, 01:02 PM by Mechavomit.)
09-25-2013, 01:01 PM
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