Can of worms: Scottish Independence

[Mudbill]

Two of my Scottish friends are going to be voting yes. We've had some discussion over Skype about this, but I can't say I'm very educated of the topic. I've heard nothing of this on the news, that's for sure.

Overall, I feel like it could be risky to break off, because the union has been going on for so long. It's like someone who is used to walking with a supporting crutch now tries to walk without it. It might be crippling for Scotland to break off, unless they really know how to stabilize themselves quickly.

On the other hand, Scotland is in a very bad state today. My friends talk about how it can't possibly get worse, so they'd like to try making it better. From what I've heard and experienced from them, it sounds true. The schools aren't doing well, and one of their families struggles with supporting themselves lately, which was why he wasn't able to travel for vacation this summer. It's a shame too, he was planning either America to visit his one friend, or Norway to visit me and my friends here.
Anyway, they were talking about how bad Scotland is doing and mostly blaming the UK and UKIP. Neither of them seem to help and only make things worse, according to them.

So I've come to agree with them. I honestly feel like it could be a good thing if Scotland breaks off the UK. Of course there are things that can go wrong, but many things can go right too. The UK would stop leeching resources from Scotland. If you compare this to Norway, we've been thriving well because we have NOT joined the European Union. It makes a lot of services waaay more expensive here, but it allows us to make our own money without having the EU come and take it from us when they need it as if we were a bank. Norway has been doing well independently, and I'm not saying this definitely will happen if Scotland breaks off, but I'm saying that if they play their cards right, there's a possibility. Scotland has a lot of resources to profit off of, like oil and fish, much like ourselves.

Oh, and side question: UK is part of EU. If Scotland breaks off the UK, will it also be out of the EU? I'm guessing so.

[Wooderson]

Oh, and side question: UK is part of EU. If Scotland breaks off the UK, will it also be out of the EU? I'm guessing so.

No this is still something which is going on separately.

Here we have the Labour and Conservative Party who are pretty clear on staying within the EU, for as long as almost I can remember, UK has been a stuck between voting either Labour or Tories. However now an Independent party called UKIP has gained some steam based solely on their promise of getting out of the EU.

That sounds all nice and well, but UKIP are also wanting to stamp down on immigration, which is not a good thing. To describe UKIP in a few words it would be 'Old' 'Traditional' 'Purist'. I'm not sure if they will be a serious contender at the main elections but so far they won many seats in a previous vote.

Politics in the UK is pretty much the same as everywhere, scary, hopeless and right-wing.

[MrBehemoth]

Oh, and side question: UK is part of EU. If Scotland breaks off the UK, will it also be out of the EU? I'm guessing so.

By default, Scotland will be out of the EU and have to apply to join, I think. No guarantees. I find that concerning, but I think the majority of voters don't care or they see it as a plus.

On the other hand, Scotland is in a very bad state today.

This may be true, but the austerity measures implemented to counter the international recession hit the whole UK hard. It is a national issue, but many Scots seem to see it as persecution against Scotland, which just isn't true. The UK's austerity measures were actually planned by prime minister (at the time) Gordon Brown, who is a patriotic Scot but also one of the leading figures of the "no" campaign, so go figure.

Here we have the Labour and Conservative Party who are pretty clear on staying within the EU, for as long as almost I can remember, UK has been a stuck between voting either Labour or Tories.

This is another issue I have with the debate. Most people in Scotland hate the Conservative party and think the prime minister David Cameron is a privileged, out-of-touch, public-school posh boy with little-to-no insight into the lives and minds of the "common" people of the UK, and I tend to agree. The mistake people are making is that they are seeing this as a vote between SNP and Conservative. No. The time and place to vote over that is in a general election and if the record breaking number of Scottish voters supposed to be turning out for the upcoming referendum had bothered themselves to vote in the last general election then there would probably be a labour government in London with a Scottish chancellor of the exchequer.

Another idea, which I think is spreading, is bargaining power. Scotland currently has a devolved government in Edinburgh which has been given back some powers from the UK government in London. For years, whenever a negotiation has taken place, the Scottish Government has had the threat of asking for independence to use as leverage. Many Scots I've spoken to feel that now the question has been raised, it's too late to back down: if Scotland stays in the UK then they will no longer have anything to bargain with. Personally, I feel that that argument comes from a very "us vs. them" attitude - it's overly patriotic and kind of paranoid. The big, bad English overlords are not out to get the good people of Scotland, but that is a feeling that has pervaded Scottish culture for hundreds of years. I mean, we've all seen Braveheart, right? Right?

I choose to live in Scotland because I love it here. I wouldn't live anywhere else. I was born in England and moved to Scotland with my family when I was 9. We lived in the very North of England and then in the very South of Scotland. I've never thought of myself as English or Scottish (the latter if I had to pick one) but rather I see myself as British.

Personally, I believe that a lot of what the "yes" campaign has to say is actually true, even though I've voted 'no'. Whether or not the various political, societal, economic, environmental, military or cultural arguments are true or false, the question, for me, isn't whether Scotland "can" pull off independence, it's whether it "should". I see no reason to.


As an aside,

To describe UKIP in a few words it would be 'Old' 'Traditional' 'Purist'.

Read, 'Backwards' 'Popularist' 'Racist'.

Anyways, I'm done. We'll see what happens on Thursday.

[MrWhitticus]

The only celebrity opinion that metters

[Wooderson]

>Vote Willie
>Product of Fox
>NTY

[MrBehemoth]

The only celebrity opinion that metters

Lol. How do I change my postal vote?

[Wooderson]

[MrBehemoth]

Today's the day. Fingers crossed that we make the right choice, whatever that is. I notice the poll here is neck and neck.

If you live in Scotland today, please remember that this is not an election between SNP and Conservative. Governments come and go, and the Tories will be out in a couple of years, but independence is final. Don't let your understandable loathing of the prime minister affect how you vote.

[Mudbill]

I just stumbled upon this. Thoughts?

[MrWhitticus]

I just stumbled upon this. Thoughts?

The overall vote is yes is all I'm getting