Anti-Gay Concentration Camps

[Sexbad]

In fact, I'd bet you money that I can love better than you can!

While I understand you could be infuriated, you are just proving him right by saying this.

I think that was meant as a hyperbole.

That's the word I was looking for, thanks. I read it in my head as something sassy, but it sort of came out serious-looking.

[hollowleviathan]

let me just say that these are all very subjective issues and that arguments for or against these different beliefs are pointless.

Not true. Many arguments for and against the ideas and platforms of the American Democratc and Republican parties can and should be objective, presented with research, facts, and plans all prepared by experts in the field. Neither how some yuppie sipping a latte nor overall clad wheat farmer feels is true.

No, there are no effective ways of changing one's sexuality. It is not a choice, cannot be changed, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with not being sexually normal.

And like I said, that's just your opinion; you have nothing to back that belief up besides what actual gays have said, just like I have nothing to back up the belief that homosexuality immoral.

Here also you are wrong, he has the backing of, say, all of mainstream science*. It's not what the "gays have said".

*Royal College of Psychiatrists (UK) http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS01_2010x.pdf
Australian Psychological Society http://www.psychology.org.au/publication...ientation/
American Psychological Association http://www.apa.org/about/governance/coun...ation.aspx

We can't convince each other of anything. Even if one side "wins" the argument, we are all so grounded in our beliefs that there is no possible way that we will change our minds on anything. So, once again, why even bother arguing?

Because I sincerely hope that people are willing to learn, grow, and change their mind if presented with new information.

[Redeemer]

We are in the non-gaming subforum. We can talk about what our favorite varieties of scented candles are here.

Sure, but there's a huge difference between harmless discussions and bitter arguments about things like this. Argument is only healthy if it produces mutually positive results, and as I've said before, largely subjective arguments like this never end well for anyone.

You have no proof that homosexuality is immoral, yet you believe it is. The most you can probably muster (though I have no idea how much you care about the following things) is probably that gay people are slightly more prone to transmitting STDs due to the fragile nature of the bumbum, and that gay people cannot actually genetically produce babies.
Meanwhile I have plenty of firsthand experience to say that it is completely okay to be gay. I am gay, but I can't think of one negative personality trait of mine that has anything to do with me liking men. I am completely harmless and will never harm another human being unless I am defending myself from some sort of physical attack.

To me, immorality has more to do than natural consequence on this earth. I don't care whether you ever carry a disease in your lifetime for being gay, I will always believe you and other gays are wrong for doing this.

Like I said before, you have your views on this matter, and the fact that you yourself are gay will certainly ground your beliefs on that issue. I will not attempt to change your views, because even if I could, it would not be worth my time and most likely would have no effect on you. Nevertheless, I will not change my own views on this matter, no matter what you say to me or how loud you say it.

That said, it should be pretty clear to you that this argument should not continue.

Read my posts again: while my last post was rather heated, when was I being intolerant? Please quote me.

Let me make it clear that while you may wholeheartedly accept the fact that some people lead a gay lifestyle, that is not tolerance. You believe that everything they do is right and justifiable; you're not "tolerating" them, you're in 100% agreement with them on everything; the only difference between them and you is that you are personally different on the more physical matters of the issue. You all share the same thinking about homosexuality. How can you be simply "tolerating" something when you are actually in total agreement with it?

Contrast that with me. I am 100% opposed to the gay lifestyle. Nevertheless, I live in a society that has begun to completely embrace it. Believe it or not, I am not very vocal about this and tend to keep to myself. My older brother once worked at a Steak & Shake restaurant which was mostly staffed by gay men, and despite our shared dislike of homosexuals, he stuck it out for several months until he quit for various reasons (S&S is really a terrible place to work). Concerning the homos he worked with, he put up no fuss, held no protests, and did not raise any issues about them, despite their obvious ideological differences. That is the true definition of tolerance.

So when I briefly mention that I oppose a certain ideology, hold certain political beliefs, or announce my support for a way of thinking that happens to be contrary to what you are used to, and then you all explode in my face for doing just that... Are you being tolerant? The answer is simply No.

[hollowleviathan]

So when I briefly mention that I oppose a certain ideology, hold certain political beliefs, or announce my support for a way of thinking that happens to be contrary to what you are used to, and then you all explode in my face for doing just that... Are you being tolerant? The answer is simply No.

You keep saying explode in your face, but people are just arguing with you. Are they insulting you, or arguing against the points you've brought up and offering counterexamples? Are they banning you for your opinions, or openly discussing them and gladly accepting that a person with opinions other than theirs is fully allowed to express them and go about their day? Exploding in your face is what happens when you try to say what you think in third world countries; people die. You are being tolerated, just as you tolerate homosexuals living around you.

[Redeemer]

You are being tolerated, just as you tolerate homosexuals living around you.

Last time I checked, I didn't shout at anyone who said they were a democrat, liberal, or gay. I've been the one talking about how this all needs to end.

EDIT: I guess I should point out that I've been using the phrase "exploding in your face" as a metaphor. Of course no one is exploding in my face, but the fact that a very heated and personal argument arose simply because I said I was conservative does tend to point to the fact that you are very touchy people.

[hollowleviathan]

the fact that a very heated and personal argument arose simply because I said I was conservative does tend to point to the fact that you are very touchy people.

I think it was less about you being conservative and more about how you posted to a thread called "Anti-Gay Concentration Camps" about how homosexuality is immoral. A heated argument just means the person is passionate about the subject. Really, no one is shouting (no caps), and not nearly all of us have gotten personal or insulting. In fact, calling us touchy and saying we're exploding in your face is the most 'personal' I've seen in this thread.

You're not a victim just because you're in the minority. I'd like to get back to the topic at hand; http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thr...l#pid73324

[Gharren]

Let me make it clear that while you may wholeheartedly accept the fact that some people lead a gay lifestyle, that is not tolerance.

Yes, it is. Tolerance does not exclude acceptance or agreement with someones opinion or lifestyle.
You can tolerate something without agreeing with it, but you can't agree with something without even tolerating it. That'd be a paradoxon.

[...]despite our shared dislike of homosexuals[...]

This sounds very offensive in a thread about anti-gay camps.
I mean, it is your opinion, but "dislike of homosexuals" is pure generalization. Being homosexual is just one characteristic of thousands a human have. Everyone is an individual.
Lets say your best friend admits that he is gay, do you actually begin to dislike him because of that one little, insignificant charateristic?

[Sexbad]

Lets say your youngest son admits that he is gay, do you actually begin to dislike him because of that one little, insignificant charateristic?

fixed

[graykin]

The Evangelicals of the Conservatism embarrass those of us who are just "casual" Conservatives. I believe in low spending and taxes, but I'm very much okay with any social practice that doesn't put any other person at risk. Smoking marijuana? Sure. Prostitution? I'm okay with that, so long as the "professional" involved is working voluntarily (I do believe there are legal brothels in the state of Nevada, which are well-regulated and checked consistently for infections--no pimps or brutality involved). It's no different with homosexuality. I'm not going to worry about what my gay neighbors do in the middle of the night while there is rampant violence in the Middle East, violence which is spreading to other portions of the world.

Homosexuality is such a trivial fucking issue. We need to start judging people based on their character, and not on who they find themselves attracted to. The issue stems, I hate to say it, mostly from religion, from what I've seen, and the people who interpret their religious doctrines literally (note that I'm not singling out Christianity here).

There are gay animals around, dolphins and elephants and others. Some Native American tribes would encourage homosexuals to dress as women if they so desired--as an act of tolerance and acceptance. Why can't we accept it ourselves and move on?

[Xss]

This had to be one of the most..."interesting" definitions of tolerance I have seen, only so the intolerant person will look tolerant, while the tolerant will get the "intolerant badge" to wear.
If I was intolerant, then I wonder how I managed to share an office for two years with a ultra conservative Baptist, to the point we even went to the movies together...
...
You still have been unable to show a clear sentence where I was intolerant, aka was "exploding at your face".
...
...Anywaaaay, let's drop the "game with word definitions"...

There are gay animals around, dolphins and elephants and others. (...) Why can't we accept it ourselves and move on?

I might go completely off topic, but I think it all comes down to evolution and intelligence. So far I guess we are the only animal who started asking himself many questions, and since he couldn't answer some, gods and religions where created to fill in the gaps, both for the best and the worst (just my opinion as an atheist).
Then we started understanding things...And ended up fearing what we couldn't understand, even if that meant fearing ourselves, while wondering if we could fix whatever seemed wrong to our eyes. And some thought that maybe by fixing what seemed wrong, they will be giving a service to some people...
I find it rather ironic that all our capacity to think and analyze what is different, and actually go allow us to go beyond the basic animals, is also what makes us stop, wonder and fear when facing the most simple facts. When a black cat meets a white cat, it's quite simple: either they fight, or they mate...Okay, it is not that simple, but way more when a couple of centuries ago we wondered if humans had a soul depending on their skin color. Animals will screw at each other for a piece of meat, now we are screwing up at each others life for...For what? I guess it's a rather odd survival of the fittest.
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been better if skin colors, sexual preferences, and much more would have never existed, if we all came up from the same mold...Well, I guess that wouldn't allow us to try understand each others, again for the best and the worst.