Open-ended discussion on creation and design

[Adrianis]

Concerning non-linear story lines, do any of you remembers those books where at the bottom of each page, the reader had to make a choice, and based on that choice flip to a certain page in the book? Could that sort of idea be applied to an Amnesia story line? It would definitely give the story some "replay value".

I find replay value really useless in games like Amnesia. Its just tons of more development time which could be used to polish stuff for greater one time experience.

Totally. I remember a great one called 'Knightmare' i think it was, which they made into a gameshow TV series here in the UK. 'Choose your own adventure' books as they are colloquially known.

It could be applied here, but as Khyrpa says for a very focused story driven game like this, your better off putting the time into polishing another area. Then again, it would certainly be a unique premise for a CS, if you feel up to putting enough time into it to make it worth it

[Adny]

Amnesia had level hub's, but it was still what I would call a linear design. To me, linearity is in the guiding of the player. Take the first level hub in Amnesia, where you need to get through past the growth thing blocking the door leading down, but to do it you need to go to the archives, wine cellar and laboratory first. I guess you could get the parts for the chemical mix first going through those areas in any particular order, but the game guides you along that path, one room to the next, collecting the parts in order to progress along the next path. There is still only one way to progress, which is perfectly great for kind of experience Frictional were creating.

To me, non-linearity in game design requires there to be no set path at all, not just a variety of paths with set goals. Free-roaming games like the Elder Scrolls series still have linearity in their quest and dungeon design. There arn't many truly non-linear games I can think of, and most of the ones I can are in situations where linearity would be irrelevant, like strategy or simulation games. For first person games, shooters or otherwise, I may be wrong but I can't think of an example where it has been consistently non-linear. I'm trying to make an entirely non-linear experience for my FC, the end of the game will likely be in sight from the outset, leaving curiosity the sole guiding force for the player, and leaving the player to decide exactly where to go, how much to explore and when to bring it all to an end.

Like you Kreekakon I find non-linearity far more immersive. For others, it can just means they end up not knowing what to do or where to go, breaking the experience.

That would be an interesting way to split the ending Cranky Old Man, but since the majority of the solid information you get about the story behind the game comes from reading the diary notes, if the player viewed it as being 'punished' for being inquisitive about the storyline, you'd get some pissed off players. Its a bad perspective to take, feeling like an ending wasn't as good as another you could have gotten, I far prefer taking the consequences of whatever actions as simply the way it has to be, but some players just don't view Game narratives in that way sadly.

The only problem with using level hubs is most CS creators don't know to make each individual part come together with the rest at the end. It usually ends up not giving enough information and having players wander around, picking up items that seem pointless until justified by another level in the hub. Although in TDD, the player didn't immediately know the elevator was broken and that he needed the parts to fix it, the other levels at least had some other justifiable purpose (telling the story, for example). I've seen some very poorly designed hub levels in custom stories because the creators do not take these things into consideration.

[Kman]

Oh my god... So... So many paragraph long posts. e_o

[Adrianis]

Oh my god... So... So many paragraph long posts. e_o

lol, aint for the faint hearted that's for sure But you can't discuss this stuff with little sentences

[Putmalk]

I want to ask about tips using the Castlebase set. It's a nice set but I often find that it can get repetitive. How should I fill rooms and hallways so that they're not so bland and repetitive? I use lots of welders, statues, and paintings but sometimes I feel like it's not enough.

[SilentStriker]

I want to ask about tips using the Castlebase set. It's a nice set but I often find that it can get repetitive. How should I fill rooms and hallways so that they're not so bland and repetitive? I use lots of welders, statues, and paintings but sometimes I feel like it's not enough.

You can use flags, maybe some paintings depending on what room it is and you can always use some kind of barrels or boxes

[Putmalk]

I want to ask about tips using the Castlebase set. It's a nice set but I often find that it can get repetitive. How should I fill rooms and hallways so that they're not so bland and repetitive? I use lots of welders, statues, and paintings but sometimes I feel like it's not enough.

You can use flags, maybe some paintings depending on what room it is and you can always use some kind of barrels or boxes

  castlehallstest.jpg (Size: 65.27 KB / Downloads: 191)

This isn't what I was talking about before about being bland, but what do you think? Is this fog effect too strong here? Are the billboards set up nicely?

[SilentStriker]

Are you using a fog area when you have fog? Because I would suggest not using fog areas if you don't have an outside environment inside I would suggest using ps_fog_area and I would suggest looking in the TDD maps on what settings they are using and what particles etc

and also on the billboards just look at TDD's maps you can learn a lot from looking at the masters of the engines maps since they know it inside and out, look at all the small details they have and everything

[Putmalk]

I do look at them.

And yes, ps_fog_area.

[SilentStriker]

I do look at them.

And yes, ps_fog_area.

Good just checking