Jack Thompson (hide your games!)

[Kman]

Yes, I agree with you that some people can handle different stuff while others can't.

But if I'd start to sell 18+ / M rated games to some under age kids and then tell their friends, who I don't see as mature, that they can't buy the game, it would be unfair.
And even if I did sell it to every under age person, it's still illegal here.
Those things, and more importantly the later one, are enough for me to say that it's a no-no in my case.

I see my point to be a principle more than being a "narrow-minded".
But as I said, people can disagree with me if they want.

Exactly, that's why I said I understand the purpose of the rating system, but my problem was this:

However, if they come in with their parent who buys it for them, then it's their decision and I won't take part of their rearing methods.

That bugs me. Like I said, I'm at a maturity level where I can play games like Amnesia and other M rated games without it having much of a negative impact on me (and I'm sure a few other kids my age are too). My parents realized this after a while, so they let me play games like that. My problem is you made it seem like under any circumstance a minor playing an M rated game is a tragedy that'll only result in the child having a bad up bringing. If the parents think that their child is at a maturity level that they can handle games like that, then I see no issue in letting them buy them for their kid.

[Sexbad]

I actually played some of the most violent games I can remember when I was around thirteen. Penumbra, Condemned, Soldier of Fortune II (settings all the way up). So far, I've only received three life sentences.

[CorinthianMerchant]

Jack Thompson: Video Games turn our kids evil!!!!111!0
Daniel: Is he alright?
Alexander:He is one of the wicked, don't pay his lies any attention.

[Kreekakon]

Jack Thompson: Video Games turn our kids evil!!!!111!0
Daniel: Is he alright?
Alexander:He is one of the wicked, don't pay his lies any attention.

Oh man, this right here.

[Zaffre]

I feel violated. My grandpa's name was Jack and I don't want to despise him like I do this guy. When I heard him, my sanity dropped all the way down.

I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY.

[the dark side]

i Personally dont think maturity has anything to do with it..

in my opinion, violent videogames are not the cause of evil actions, they are meerly an accelerant, those people who play these violent videogames, and then go mad in a shopping mall with an m16, are in my opinion, already evil and insane, they were probably born evil and insane...

if a person is insane enough to kill, they are going to kill, videogames will not controll that, just accelerate it, its just, if they play games, they are liable to go mental with an ak aged 15 because someone took the mickey out of them at school, instead og aged 40 when they get fired from the post office. banning violent games is not going to stop the massacres, nor will gun controll, (it doesnt work, i live in the Uk were guns are Illegal, and we get massacres here!) it will only delay them.

we had evil people murdering people long before the videogame was ever invented, John Wilkes Boothe anyone?

maturity isnt a factor either. i have a mental age of 11, i have autism, by all logic, when you consider ive been playing games like soldier of fortune 2 for far more years than is good for me, i should be a raving loonatic! yet violence, in reality, is Abhorrent to me! i dont even like the idea of killing a spider! so, maturity isnt really the answer.

i think its a case of, the people who do the killing are insane from birth, and videogame controll isnt going to change that.

all thompson does is swing more people on to violent videogames, did you know i only played GTA SA because i wanted to see why he, and the anti videogame lobby were making such a fuss, i found quite a lot of it to be absolutely Disgusting, but i could also see that a lot more of it was a heck of a lot of fun, i can see why its so popular., i disliked it, so i dont play it, i wouldnt stop people from playing it though.
basically, all the anti game lobby is doing is giving violent games free publicity.

im not saying there shouldnt be an anti violent game lobby, as some companies lack the respect to self monitor themselves, and can produce games so depraived even I think should never be launched, and io agree with the modern warfare 3 advert being baneed from being shown in the UK before the watershed, as i can see why children would find it frightning! i wouldnt want children seeing it!

they just need to back down and stop treating videogames like they are the spawn of the devil. because they do a lot of good. they are especially good at helping people with hand eye co-ordination difficulties and slow mental response, as the fast pace of videogames improves both mental reaction time, and hand eye co-ordination, i myself have benefited from the hand eye co-ordination improvements given by games. so it really makes me cross when people treat all games like the devil made them, when really, only a few deserve that anger.

[Kreekakon]

Reading your post dark side, I have to say your view on human nature is really pessimistic.

I mean, people born evil to be evil? Really?

[the dark side]

kreekakon, yes, i will admit i have a rather pessimistic view on human nature. if you would kindly take the time to read my profile you will understand why. i have great difficulty in seeing the "shades of grey", only black and white. FGood or bad, 1 or Zero, being born evil is the only reason i have as to how a thug, a maniac, can come from both the glittering towers as well as the graffit splattered urban swamps of the inner city, in the same way both envioronments can also turn up a true humanitarian. its not gaming, or wed all be violent madmen, and it cannot be environment, and it cannot he nuture, either, as people from abusive families can go on to do great things, were as people from the most loving and supportive families, can grow up to become violent criminals, so the only explaination, under my, admittedly VERY flawed logic is nature. and you nature is what you are born with.

[Prelauncher]

I do not agree with you, The Dark Side. I don't belive that people are born evil and I think it's a way too narrow view on something so large as human nature. But to some extent you are right, scientists have discovered (I don't remember the whole story) that the brain produces a certain chemical that increase the chance for violent behavior, some people are born with brains that produce more than the average amount of this chemical wich in most cases makes them more likely to become violent.
Apart from that, I say no, people are not born evil. It does not matter how evil their parents are before the baby is born, their behavior is not in any way affecting the development of the babys body and brain (unless of course, the mother consumes toxic substances, for example alcohol).
Every baby is like a white pice of paper, they have no real personality, there's nothing going on in their brain because at this early stage of life the human body is not capable of interpreting the world. We are not born equal (biologicaly), our bodies develope in different ways and therefore we will be more likely to behave and do certain things.
So there is a huge amount of factors which determine who you'll end up being, what you'll like, how you'll behave. The biggest factor are ones parents, they shape who you'll become, they build the foundation from which youll build your self. And based on how your parents raise you you'll be more likely to commit crime or not. Apart from your parents there are a whole lot of other factors; friends, school, enemies, history, politics, religion, violence etc.
So in this way, how subjectable one is to violence in video games are soley based on maturity and personallity. At certain periods of peoples life they are more recipient to certain themes and acts etc. based on their level of maturity. Just look at punk for example, not everybody likes it, but younger people tend to like it based on their level of maturity which have been shaped by their surrounding world since punk music often deal with political themes. It is a phace of the development of ones mind that are highly affected by ones view of the world.
Some people might be and are more recipient to violence in video games, and this is because of their background, maturity, psychological state, mental illness etc. Some people might commit crimes because of what they've excperienced in video games, but like you said, we can't put the blame soley on video games.

[the dark side]

Prelauncher. i quess i should have used a different word to evil, its just, i dont know what other word to use, i only see things "in black and white" i cant differentiate the shades between good and bad, and being a christian (albiet one who plays horror games, i find it fascinating that one of the most unchristian genres is also the one that uses the most biblical themes) evil is the only explanation i can understand.

i didnt know about that discover actually, ive not been keeping up with science lately, so, when i say born "evil", because thats they way i understand the world and cope with it, in reality, all that "evil" is, is a chemical. that is interesting, it can certainly explain why even the glittering towers can produced a crazed thug when there are no environmental or social factors present that more sterotypically produce a homocidally angry youth. a fascinting discovery, can you link me to any futher reading on it please, i need to catch up.

i know all too well humans are not born equall, if we were, we would all be Neurologically tyical, and im about as far from that as alpha centauri is from paris.

on bad parenting raising criminal youth, again, i have a slight problem there, that is very true in the majority of cases, yes, children from loving homes often go on to be placid, loving and normal people. and most "thugs" come from broken, violent, homes, yet, in the london riots, some of the worst rioters came from loving middle and upper class homes, and ive known people from some of the most broken and violent council estates, kids who have been kicked around like a football by there parents to become loving, intelligent and humanitarian individuals, one i knew became a decorated police officer, another, a Social worker.. i know these are rare inversions on the normal, but, i feel they should still be explained, as "normal" is a dirty word to me, an elitist rule of thumb governed by the majority.
Because i am "different" from "normal" i was considered by many of my peers at school to be "subhuman" and a "target", im no less normal than any of them! im probably more normal because im not sick and twisted, (you have to be sick in the head to get pleasure out of someones suffering) i was just considered ab-normal because i behave differently, due to genetic factors, to the "normal" majority, so i like to ignore "Normal" and focuss on the rare "non normal" cases, as those are the ones, i think, if explained, could really be the key to cracking what truly makes humanity "tick".

Religion could be an explaination, perhaps ive been saved from becoming violent and disturbed by my strong christianity, but then again, Religion, when Misinterpreted or twisted by powerfull individuals, can lead to a form of mass violent insanity, as seen by islamic fundamentalist terror groups.

As for polotics, well, im personally pretty conservative, Queen and Country, lock all the blighters up, etc. what the americans would term "white fence"

Freinds is also a good explaination, it certainly explains "gangsta" culture, even i can see how that feeling of being popular is appealing.

i am familiar with maturity phases, i will admit that around 15, i became somewhat rather communist! i immersed myself in Mao and Marx because i liked that idea of "equality for all". as i got older, i saw it was even more flawed than the current system and turned my back. i never got on with punk or any music that is "anti establishment" though, due to my abhorence of real life violence, many anti authority cultures are extremely violent, but i quess i can see how an aetheistic human being without the moral encoding of religion could be drawn into it more, especially the lowest classes, who are often taxed into oblivion and feel somewhat supressed by the rich elite who run the country. in the same way i get angry about being "squashed" in favour of the COD loving mainstream in gaming, i quess they get angry about being "squashed" by the rich. they want revenge, that they want to do some "squashing" instead. anger does lead to irrationality, and true, maturity does come into it, were as an angry adult is liable to just write a rude letter to the person who has angered them, a child, without the self controll of an adult, will just strike out at what has angered them, i quess the angry youth are incapable of gaining the maturity required for self controll, perhaps due to that brain chemical you mentioned, as many of them go on to become even angrier adults.

you mentioned mental health, again, i am sorry to use myself as an example, and im not shooting your theory down, in fact it seems very plausible and is probably quite close to the actual truth, i have a mental age of 11 (immature) and im not all that well mentally, suffering from autism and having had more than one nervous breakdown in the past due to being the victim of bullying at school wich has also lead to episodic depression, when you consider the number of years i have played 18 rated violent videogames (i was playing duke nukem 3d aged 9, like most of us here) i should, theoretically, be a raging homocidal maniac, yet, i find real life violence completley abhorent, i dont even like the idea of harming a spider. so, im not too sure about the maturity, school, and mental health aspects of the equation personally.

what i find truly fascinating is, for every theory, there is an equally strong counter example that pretty much blows it open, i quess that might explain why videogames are so often scape-goated as the cause of these horrible massacres, as many people are impatiant, and they want an answer "enn oh double-u- now!" and are not willing to wait for scientists to sift through all the therories and counter examples and finally crack the human brain and explain it, so, they just got for a fast and easy explanation, as, people, understandably are frightened (gang culture for example, wich is over-running our cities, terrifies me personally!), and fear breeds anger, they need a target for that anger, something that is quick and easy to pick on, and gaming is it, as sadly, it does seem that these people who do go totally crazy with a gun, All play violent videogames, making them a quick and easy scapegoat.

sometimes, i despair of humans, i really do.