(04-13-2013, 04:54 AM)NightmareBrothers Wrote: Ill change the floor, and I was hoping to get the effect that the sun (or moon) was up high in the sky, but I guess it does look kind of bizarre.
The only reason it looks so bizarre is because the billboards don't start at the window and don't follow the outline of the light left on the floor. If you have a sun that's at that high of an angle and shining through a window that brightly, the surroundings are going to need to be brightly lit too. This would mean throwing some pointlights in that originate where the light hits the ground and radiate out, gradually getting darker (like this).
If you're going to have a moon shining through that window, try changing the colours to be a bit more blue. I use this as a palette for night colours:
--- 1 ------ 2 ------- 3 ------- 4 ------ 5 ------ 6 ------- 7 ------ 8 ----- 9 -
R 0.017 -> 0.053 -> 0.061 -> 0.105 -> 0.034 -> 0.122 -> 0.000 -> 0.282 -> 0.551
G 0.060 -> 0.058 -> 0.082 -> 0.116 -> 0.119 -> 0.165 -> 0.690 -> 0.741 -> 0.741
B 0.092 -> 0.071 -> 0.106 -> 0.141 -> 0.184 -> 0.211 -> 1.000 -> 1.000 -> 1.000
^ Darkest, probably the box light - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ^
--------------------------------------Lightest, very very bright source of light |
And then mess around with the Alpha however you desire. If you use it, don't necessarily use all the colours. I usually use 4, 5, 6, and 8. The rest are for if I need colours in between - such as for billboards (which shouldn't be the same brightness of the spotlight used).
That's the palette of colours I used for the second image in my previous post (this one).
That being said, your whole room is definitely too dark. Contrast between the light and dark is a good thing, but you shouldn't be completely unable to see your surroundings when standing in bright light.
Also, you can use ceiling tiles as floor tiles, just try adding decals and debris to it and definitely don't use the same texture for the ceiling of the same, or any nearby, rooms.
Once you've brightened up your map a little more, post the new pictures here
Thank you! I'm working with the windows and spotlights. I'm curious though, is it better to make dark rooms with a dark box light, or make it with light spot and point lights? Also whenever I try and make a very dark box light, I can only make it so it has a blue tint.
(04-14-2013, 10:24 PM)NightmareBrothers Wrote: Thank you! I'm working with the windows and spotlights. I'm curious though, is it better to make dark rooms with a dark box light, or make it with light spot and point lights? Also whenever I try and make a very dark box light, I can only make it so it has a blue tint.
Warning: impending wall of text sorted into spoilers based on which one of your questions is being answered
Spotlights & Pointlights vs Boxlights
Spoiler below!
To answer your question in a very confusing and wordy way: it depends on how dark you want to make your room. I never go under 0. 099 for the net value of an ambient boxlight (the darkest your room can possibly get) because it starts to make the entire room look very weird. If you want to go darker than that, use pointlights, although I've never found a reason to do so.
By net value, I mean that this is the number you should get when you add up the number for R, G, and B.
If you have light sources in your room, such as windows and holes, (I'm sure I saw some in your screenshot) try putting a spotlight near them and using the gobo to create a realistic shadow cast by the window or hole in the ceiling (or reflection off the surface of water). Then angle it to however you want the sun/moon/lightsource to be shining in.
After that, I usually place three pointlights in the center of the opening/light source: one with a radius of 2.5~3 that's 60% as bright as your spotlight, one with a radius of 5~6 that is 30-40% as bright as the spotlight, and the last one with a radius of 7~11 (depending on the size of your room) that's 15-20% as bright as the spotlight. It makes the light look as though it's fading and bouncing around the room naturally rather than being blocked off and contained by the map.
For candles or lamps, if they must have spotlights, place the spotlight in the same spot as the flame and angle it down. Increase the FOV (field of view) and the radius so that the light hits the floor/table/wall/whatever else, but doesn't make sharp edges.
If you don't intend on using a spotlight, place in a white pointlight (default colour) and mess around with the radius until it is larger than the area covered naturally by the light source. Now make the pointlight completely black - no light at all coming from it (0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000) and connect it to the lamp (the ConnectedLight option under the Entity tab of the lamp), then change the ConnectionLightAmount to 0.3~0.7. Anything higher could make the area look unnaturally bright, but start with those values and mess around until you get something that you like.
I have never made a map that does not involve pointlights or a boxlight, although I have heard that boxlights are not always necessary for maps. It's really all about messing around with the lighting until you get something you like, but not something that will frustrate the player by making them as blind as moles.
TL;DR: Use them all when possible
Blue-ish Light Tint
Spoiler below!
Also, what do you mean, it only has a blue tint? If the blue tint is visible in the level editor/map viewer, try putting in these values for your boxlight:
R: 0.198
G: 0.182
B: 0.141
A: 0.000
That should give you a grey-yellow tone. If that works, try this one next:
R: 0.099
G: 0.091
B: 0.072
This should also give you the same grey-yellow tone, but about half as bright as the last one. If it turns out blue, too, then I'm not sure what your level editor is doing.
I normally don't go below 0.099 for a net value in a boxlight (as perviously mentioned) because it tends to make the lighting look very weird.
Is it possible that this blue-tint is coming from the in-game night-vision effects? I don't think it's possible to turn that off (although I wouldn't know). To test that idea in-game, use your lantern and check the colour of the area outside your lantern's range.
If it's the night vision, there's really nothing you can do to make it less blue other than make it brighter.
I shouldn't go on the forum when I'm avoiding homework... it leads to a lot of talking and typing with very little productiveness. Hopefully my rambling helps a bit
Also, I now have the Tetris theme on repeat.
And, in case I haven't bombarded you with enough stuff in this message, these are the other two complete colour palettes that I've used so far:
Spoiler below!
I reference these like crazy when I'm working on maps, figured they might be useful to someone else as well
R: 0.099 -> 0.198 -> 0.396 -> 0.792 -> 1.000
G: 0.091 -> 0.182 -> 0.364 -> 0.728 -> 0.897
B: 0.072 -> 0.141 -> 0.282 -> 0.564 -> 0.618
Grey-ish yellow, first value is used as boxlight
Last value is reserved for very bright spotlights
R: 0.196 -> 0.392 -> 0.920 -> 1.000 -> 1.000
G: 0.049 -> 0.133 -> 0.472 -> 0.558 -> 0.660
B: 0.000 -> 0.051 -> 0.121 -> 0.138 -> 0.293
Very saturated sunset/rise, used 0.053, 0.058, 0.072 as a boxlight because it looked cool
Last value is reserved for spotlights shining through sun-facing windows only.
Last Edit: I also underlined most of the keywords in my wall of text for your convenience and added a TL;DR
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2013, 11:30 PM by CarnivorousJelly.)
(04-14-2013, 10:24 PM)NightmareBrothers Wrote: Thank you! I'm working with the windows and spotlights. I'm curious though, is it better to make dark rooms with a dark box light, or make it with light spot and point lights? Also whenever I try and make a very dark box light, I can only make it so it has a blue tint.
Warning: impending wall of text sorted into spoilers based on which one of your questions is being answered
Spotlights & Pointlights vs Boxlights
Spoiler below!
To answer your question in a very confusing and wordy way: it depends on how dark you want to make your room. I never go under 0. 099 for the net value of an ambient boxlight (the darkest your room can possibly get) because it starts to make the entire room look very weird. If you want to go darker than that, use pointlights, although I've never found a reason to do so.
By net value, I mean that this is the number you should get when you add up the number for R, G, and B.
If you have light sources in your room, such as windows and holes, (I'm sure I saw some in your screenshot) try putting a spotlight near them and using the gobo to create a realistic shadow cast by the window or hole in the ceiling (or reflection off the surface of water). Then angle it to however you want the sun/moon/lightsource to be shining in.
After that, I usually place three pointlights in the center of the opening/light source: one with a radius of 2.5~3 that's 60% as bright as your spotlight, one with a radius of 5~6 that is 30-40% as bright as the spotlight, and the last one with a radius of 7~11 (depending on the size of your room) that's 15-20% as bright as the spotlight. It makes the light look as though it's fading and bouncing around the room naturally rather than being blocked off and contained by the map.
For candles or lamps, if they must have spotlights, place the spotlight in the same spot as the flame and angle it down. Increase the FOV (field of view) and the radius so that the light hits the floor/table/wall/whatever else, but doesn't make sharp edges.
If you don't intend on using a spotlight, place in a white pointlight (default colour) and mess around with the radius until it is larger than the area covered naturally by the light source. Now make the pointlight completely black - no light at all coming from it (0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000) and connect it to the lamp (the ConnectedLight option under the Entity tab of the lamp), then change the ConnectionLightAmount to 0.3~0.7. Anything higher could make the area look unnaturally bright, but start with those values and mess around until you get something that you like.
I have never made a map that does not involve pointlights or a boxlight, although I have heard that boxlights are not always necessary for maps. It's really all about messing around with the lighting until you get something you like, but not something that will frustrate the player by making them as blind as moles.
TL;DR: Use them all when possible
Blue-ish Light Tint
Spoiler below!
Also, what do you mean, it only has a blue tint? If the blue tint is visible in the level editor/map viewer, try putting in these values for your boxlight:
R: 0.198
G: 0.182
B: 0.141
A: 0.000
That should give you a grey-yellow tone. If that works, try this one next:
R: 0.099
G: 0.091
B: 0.072
This should also give you the same grey-yellow tone, but about half as bright as the last one. If it turns out blue, too, then I'm not sure what your level editor is doing.
I normally don't go below 0.099 for a net value in a boxlight (as perviously mentioned) because it tends to make the lighting look very weird.
Is it possible that this blue-tint is coming from the in-game night-vision effects? I don't think it's possible to turn that off (although I wouldn't know). To test that idea in-game, use your lantern and check the colour of the area outside your lantern's range.
If it's the night vision, there's really nothing you can do to make it less blue other than make it brighter.
I shouldn't go on the forum when I'm avoiding homework... it leads to a lot of talking and typing with very little productiveness. Hopefully my rambling helps a bit
Also, I now have the Tetris theme on repeat.
And, in case I haven't bombarded you with enough stuff in this message, these are the other two complete colour palettes that I've used so far:
Spoiler below!
I reference these like crazy when I'm working on maps, figured they might be useful to someone else as well
R: 0.099 -> 0.198 -> 0.396 -> 0.792 -> 1.000
G: 0.091 -> 0.182 -> 0.364 -> 0.728 -> 0.897
B: 0.072 -> 0.141 -> 0.282 -> 0.564 -> 0.618
Grey-ish yellow, first value is used as boxlight
Last value is reserved for very bright spotlights
R: 0.196 -> 0.392 -> 0.920 -> 1.000 -> 1.000
G: 0.049 -> 0.133 -> 0.472 -> 0.558 -> 0.660
B: 0.000 -> 0.051 -> 0.121 -> 0.138 -> 0.293
Very saturated sunset/rise, used 0.053, 0.058, 0.072 as a boxlight because it looked cool
Last value is reserved for spotlights shining through sun-facing windows only.
Last Edit: I also underlined most of the keywords in my wall of text for your convenience and added a TL;DR
thank you! This helped immensely. I will play around with the lights and work on the color based on these descriptions.
A common trend I'm seeing in pictures people post is that they go way overboard on the billboards. Think of it like this, windows aren't flood lights, and the reason light rays like that are cast from windows is only if the air is dusty, and those dust particles are what are being illuminated. Only those. Therefore, the light rays should be very subtle, almost invisible. They should also reach almost all the way to the ground upon which they are illuminating. If the light is being cast on the dust in the area, then there should be no reason that dust is suddenly cut off halfway to the point of the light reaching its destination.
Even in cases where the light source is extremely bright compared to the surrounding area, the light shaft is still not very bright.
Example:
Another thing to take note of is that the reason the light shafts look artificial is because the shafts themselves are brighter than the light they cast on the ground, in most peoples' pictures. It should be the opposite. Refer to the above pictures to see what I mean.
It's okay for a light shaft to be fairly bright, but only if it's from a direct light source, not diffused through a window like they almost always are in Amnesia environments. If it's a direct hole with bright sunlight streaming through, the light cast on the ground should still be much brighter than the light shaft itself.
TL;DR version:
1) Light rays are only bright when direct sunlight causes them in dim environments, not when they are diffused through windows.
2) The light shaft should reach nearly all the way to the point of illumination.
3) The shaft should never be brighter than the light it casts on the ground.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2013, 06:15 PM by Streetboat.)
An attempt @ a MansionBase room, I usually do very few of them.
Tell me what do you think!
EDIT: Streetboat, well I recall i've used billboards in this image too, but the sun is actually pointing towards the windows, and i've made them really intense because I guess they look so good in HPL2, and I wanted to recreate a bit the Brennenburg rooms, so i followed a bit ATDD's fashion! ^^
listen to boards of canada
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2013, 06:42 PM by Hardarm.)
(04-16-2013, 06:39 PM)Hardarm Wrote: An attempt @ a MansionBase room, I usually do very few of them.
Tell me what do you think!
EDIT: Streetboat, well I recall i've used billboards in this image too, but the sun is actually pointing towards the windows, and i've made them really intense because I guess they look so good in HPL2, and I wanted to recreate a bit the Brennenburg rooms, so i followed a bit ATDD's fashion! ^^
(04-16-2013, 06:39 PM)Hardarm Wrote: An attempt @ a MansionBase room, I usually do very few of them.
Tell me what do you think!
EDIT: Streetboat, well I recall i've used billboards in this image too, but the sun is actually pointing towards the windows, and i've made them really intense because I guess they look so good in HPL2, and I wanted to recreate a bit the Brennenburg rooms, so i followed a bit ATDD's fashion! ^^
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