To all you modders out there!

[MyRedNeptune]

Where does story writing end and designing a narrative experience begin? Is story really a completely separate concept from gameplay? I'm having trouble drawing the line...

[eliasfrost]

Heavy Rain is a better example, because it still had some form of gameplay. I'm not quite sure which was higher in their priority list in production, but when it comes to a vast majority of the industry, I have to agree that gameplay is a bit more important to think about before a story. If I were making a game, I'd want something people could have fun in, with perhaps good replayability. Story IS important nowadays, but I don't think story alone would be a good selling point. You're better off as an author if that's more your style, you know?

Depends on how you define a story, in a book, there's a definite path that the reader must take because the author wants it to be so. Games, on the other hand, can branch like no other medium, decision making can also be a kind of gameplay, it's not all about having fun, it's also about delivering an experience that the player feel involved with, and what medium is better than games to provide that kind of interactivity?

Maybe there's no tetris in the game, or shooting portals to get to the next area, but making sure you make the right decision and that the choices you make, the paths you choose, will line up in a way that is exciting and feels as you play. If I can convey a feeling in the player, then I would feel successful as a developer. Becuase, essentially I'm an artist and not an engineer, and that's how I like to keep it for me.

For people that are interested, check out TUN on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJJaGSV75y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBtongue?feature=watch

[Wooderson]

Hmm didn't think this would spark a full discussion...

My example of story > gameplay is The Walking Dead. I could have never even played the game and enjoyed it just as much by watching someone do a walkthrough or whatnot.

The dev is right, I just think she didn't word it right making her sound quite ignorant in the process which i'm sure she isn't.

[Kman]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, but story driven games are capable of being 10 times more impactful than any gameplay driven game will ever be, and honestly I think they're what's going to start taking the forefront in the game industry in the future. Dear Esther was no where near perfect, but the ideas it pushed forward and boundaries it broke were impressive in its' own right. Before game like that started being developed gaming was a much simpler medium, pretty much the extent of what you could do with it was give an experience that would be fun and kill some time. But DE and other story driven games pushed the idea forward of using gaming as a medium of creating a more emotional and personal experience, one that could actually have a rather large impact on you.

The very concept of gaming in itself gives it way more potential in story telling than any other medium out there, such as movies, books, etc. It puts you in the world of the story itself, instead of basically watching the story unfold and characters develop you are one of the characters and you're placed right in the middle of the action. This allows for a much much more personal and realistic experience than any other type of media could ever provide, since you're actually in the story itself (this is where the whole concept of immersion comes into play).

When the first games started being developed it was acceptable for them to just be short fun experiences due to the fact that the medium was fairly new and the technology was far from being great, but now that it's existed for this long we are no longer bound by that and using games to create a much more personal and emotional experience is possible, and luckily a few developers have startsd to do that (TCR and FG being a few of them). And this whole idea of "gameplay is always first" is being passed down to new developers is incredibly ignorant and is what's keeping games from moving past being simple and fun ways to kill time.

[Statyk]

Yeah, you guys have a point... Gameplay-before-story really does sound like an EA thing to do >>

[darkely]

I'm sorry, I can't praise Dear Esther like everyone else. I'd rather read a book. At least then it'd last longer and still give me the same, if not better, experience. I wouldn't consider Dear Esther a game, which is why I don't think that argument defeats the 'gameplay first, story later' argument.

I knew how controversial Dear Esther is on the subject of being a game thus why I provided Heavy Rain as a second example.

I'd be careful where you tread earlier I got my ass collectively handed to me for making a smug remark (and being sort of a dick).

[Statyk]

I didn't make a smug remark... I just said I didn't like Dear Esther. =\ Did I come off as smug?

[FlawlessHappiness]

I'm sorry to jump right into this conversation.

I don't find Bioshock Infinite to be a "must-play", because of the gameplay...
To me it seems like the mechanics have been used much before.
First person, guns, superpowers, and an AI-controlled sidekick.

Please don't hate me, because all i've seen is gameplay, and it didn't really get to me...


I find story to be really good, but there must be something to make the player, start playing the actual game, before getting into the story.

I'd like to bring up Ib here.
The mechanics are really simple. All you use is Spacebar and the Arrowkeys. The graphics are simple and with some creative puzzles and concept, it's interesting to play the game.
Then comes the story, which actually seems to be pretty good. In the start it's just the concept that gets to you, but later on a story starts to emerge and those 2 fusions together.
The music is nice too...

I don't know, maybe I'm just a hipster gamer...

I'd say a concept is pretty important, but not too advanced mechanics, and the graphics shouldn't be ultimately insane unless you're supposed to look at it, and not fight bad guys all the time. Then story will catch up to you if you start playing the game.

[darkely]

I didn't make a smug remark... I just said I didn't like Dear Esther. =\ Did I come off as smug?

I was just remind people what happens when you speak critically of something they like is all :p.

[palistov]

Definitely seems to be more of advice for artists, designers and developers. Only a couple things stood out to me as relevant to the programmers. Still valuable information. I'll make sure I have a scanner with me next time I'm programming