Opinions on how TCR & FG are dealing with AAMFP criticism

**Ashtoreth** · 10-02-2013, 08:18 AM

(09-27-2013, 07:39 PM)Hardarm Wrote: My heart just got broken though when I read this and some earlier post from TCR...

"I'm 40. I've been playing and loving games since long before half the people telling us we are anti-games were even the dream of a zygote in their parents underwear. "

I felt the same. His entire reply was so cringeworthy that I just had to vent my disappointment by giving him a neutral rating.

**Ossie** · 10-02-2013, 10:58 AM

(10-02-2013, 07:07 AM)Paddy Wrote: Their P.R. manifesto apparently consists of just one line, written in 72pt bold caps: maintain a smug air of disingenuous frustration at all times.

In the case of AAMFP not only have they dismissed all of the criticism (ALL of it) they've actually been misrepresenting it by claiming that everyone who criticised the game just wanted another TDD, or words to that effect. That they refuse to accept responsibility for creating that expectation themselves is what annoys the hell out of me:

<snip>

I'm pleased that you've raised this Paddy as I've been thinking the same thing for a while now but just couldn't find the time to dredge up all of TCR's old quotes. Good work, you've done it far better than I could have. Smile

I do hope that TCR have eaten some humble pie over the expectations that they created with AMFP, only to 'let down' certain people who were expecting another TDD. In fact, I'd love to see Dan address the quotes of his that you posted - a little bit of modesty and even, dare I say it, some apologies are I feel in order (not to me, I loved the game and it pretty much turned out as I expected, but I can see how many would have been disappointed, hence a lot of the angry and 'childish' responses from fans of TDD).

**grrrz** · 10-02-2013, 01:55 PM

(09-20-2013, 08:39 PM)Dogfood Wrote:
(09-20-2013, 08:05 PM)chineseroom Wrote: Really folks? We're not allowed to have a response to the fucking brainless bullshit that's been lobbed in our direction? I think Jess was pretty damn generous, way more charitable than I would have been if it was me writing it. The inability of some people to escape from this "it has to be exactly as it was before or it's shit" mentality is downright depressing. This is not saying we can't take criticism, and that's in no way what is being said in the article. What Jess is staying is critique it, yes, do, by all means, but critique it intelligently, not through this weird defensive all-difference-seeks-to-destroy-our-medium cock.
I'm 40. I've been playing and loving games since long before half the people telling us we are anti-games were even the dream of a zygote in their parents underwear.
This isn't a response to you Paddy, btw, just an opportune place to post.

all i gotta say is:

Chill. Seriously, i agree about the fact that most of people are just saying bullshit about the game, they are stupid to be shocked by no inventory or things like that because they were already told the game wasnt going to have that. It's also stupid of them to expect the game wouldnt change at all, because if it had everything ATDD had, then what difference would it be from a regular full conversion or a custom story.

Anyway that aside, so you know on which side i am

I'm gonna be honest, as overwhelming as it may be and deppresing for you. Do you really think that's a professional way as a game company or a game developer to treat negative critics? And as dumb and clueless some people may be, you've got to remain calm to deal with them.

you'd prefer a PR bullshit over an honest opinion?
when there are stupid hateful negative comments by the thousands by people who think that because they're desappointed by a game and they spent 20 of their precious dollars they have to be gianormous assholes about it, even if you probably try not to think about it, you have to be a buddhist monk not to have a bit of an epidermic reaction.

**Ashtoreth** · 10-02-2013, 02:34 PM

(10-02-2013, 01:55 PM)grrrz Wrote: you'd prefer a PR bullshit over an honest opinion?
when there are stupid hateful negative comments by the thousands by people who think that because they're desappointed by a game and they spent 20 of their precious dollars they have to be gianormous assholes about it, even if you probably try not to think about it, you have to be a buddhist monk not to have a bit of an epidermic reaction.

It is possible to give an honest opinion/response to criticism without sounding unprofessional. All it takes is a little assertiveness. Dan's reply was as low as all the hateful negative comments TCR has received.

I've worked 7 years in customer service and I had to put up with a lot of unfounded criticism, insults, harassment, customers questioning my competence and skills without any reason. If I had let my personal feelings and emotions interfere with my job, well, first I would have been fired, and second I would probably be in a mental asylum by now.

Suppose the game had been developed by Frictional Games and published by The Chinese Room. You would never ever see Jens Nilsson or Thomas Grip go into TCR forum (if they had one) and say things like: fucking brainless bullshit, shit, cock, the dream of a zygote in their parents underwear.

And by the way, I loved AMFP, so I'm not here trying to defend the people who criticised the game just because it wasn't Amnesia part II. Read Paddy's posts here and here and maybe it will make you have a different view on this subject.

**Paddy™** · 10-02-2013, 02:38 PM

(10-02-2013, 01:55 PM)grrrz Wrote: you'd prefer a PR bullshit over an honest opinion?

Honesty from TCR would be nice. That is, intellectual honesty in how they respond to the criticisms they oh so abhor. I'm not defending the hateful, bilious shit people say about them, but those people aren't the only ones TCR has been fobbing off with their strained reasoning; everyone who criticised the game on the basis that it lacked what TDD had (mechanics, scares, etc.) is being waved away by Dan and Jess because they allegedly have entrenched ideas about what games can or should be, or that they had unreasonable expectations for what the game was intended to be, none of which is true outside of the insular world of TCR HQ.

As I and others have pointed out several times in this thread alone, any expectations of a TDD-like game which existed upon release were seeded and nurtured by pretty much all of the coverage the game had received from February 2012 onwards. Many of us took the game on its own merits and adored it, but it's not difficult to see why others didn't.

And it was during a conversation on this very topic that Dan chimed in with his completely rational and informed post Rolleyes

EDIT:

(10-02-2013, 02:34 PM)Ashtoreth Wrote: Suppose the game had been developed by Frictional Games and published by The Chinese Room. You would never ever see Jens Nilsson or Thomas Grip go into TCR forum (if they had one) and say things like: fucking brainless bullshit, shit, cock, the dream of a zygote in their parents underwear.

This

**Cuyir** · 10-02-2013, 02:52 PM

I can't empathize with people who would expect an rpg from Activision (an example) and it goes without saying (but I will) that I can't empathize with the legion of people who got them in a tizzy in the first place.

My habit of ignoring most pre release hype/talk/discussion proves me that I should keep doing that. Yep, it looks like they said things they shouldn't have said (things that could have been said when the game was shorter and less story focused than it could have been when it ''blew up'' but whatever, if they care to make that distinction then now would be the time guys) and yep, looks like they're angry.

Personally, I hope they study the fanbases of the games they take on next time and don't make the same mistake again. The most briefest of glances at the TDD fanbase would have told them all they needed to know.

**WALP** · 10-02-2013, 03:27 PM

I do not understand people saying that the name is the only reason behind the complaints, did you not play the game?.
The game even if it failed at it, clearly was designed to scare us in an amnesia kind of way, and was not just all about story, but both story and horror. Horror seemed to be in many's(not everyone's judging by the forum) opinion was a failed aspect, while story and atmosfere was a succesful and highly praised one. The reason as to how it failed or did not do well enough is a discussion of its own which I will keep myself out of at least in this thread.

**Froge** · 10-02-2013, 03:34 PM

(10-02-2013, 02:34 PM)Ashtoreth Wrote: Suppose the game had been developed by Frictional Games and published by The Chinese Room. You would never ever see Jens Nilsson or Thomas Grip go into TCR forum (if they had one) and say things like: fucking brainless bullshit, shit, cock, the dream of a zygote in their parents underwear.

+1'ed

**grrrz** · 10-02-2013, 03:51 PM

(10-02-2013, 02:34 PM)Ashtoreth Wrote: It is possible to give an honest opinion/response to criticism without sounding unprofessional. All it takes is a little assertiveness. Dan's reply was as low as all the hateful negative comments TCR has received.

I've worked 7 years in customer service and I had to put up with a lot of unfounded criticism, insults, harassment, customers questioning my competence and skills without any reason. If I had let my personal feelings and emotions interfere with my job, well, first I would have been fired, and second I would probably be in a mental asylum by now.

Suppose the game had been developed by Frictional Games and published by The Chinese Room. You would never ever see Jens Nilsson or Thomas Grip go into TCR forum (if they had one) and say things like: fucking brainless bullshit, shit, cock, the dream of a zygote in their parents underwear.

And by the way, I loved AMFP, so I'm not here trying to defend the people who criticised the game just because it wasn't Amnesia part II. Read Paddy's posts here and here and maybe it will make you have a different view on this subject.

I obvisouly won't speak for them, but their jobs is to make games, not sit quietly and take loads of craps from strangers for free. The smart move would possibly not to react at all, even on this forum that is overall a little less crual. Ok so they may have overhyped the fear elements, and it was really more an advertising thing than "intellectual honesty", and maybe not such a good idea (also a bit funny and ironic I think after reading it). I missed all of this as "fear" and "horror" alone is not what dragged me to the FG series.
But you even can't really say they failed at it, "fear" is a subjective feeling, it's doesn't go on a scale or meter (not more than sanity...), there are very different kind of fear.
I also think that there a few flaws in the game, but from what I've red from the Chinese Room people, from frictional games approach, and from playing the game, I feel they completely succeeded at what they set out to do in the first place, and for every little thing people don't like they have an honest justification that fits their artistic vision, and they wouldn't had it any other way. For me this shows intellectual honesty, and intergrity, something that's a bit underrated in the whole "video game industry".

**Kreekakon** · 10-02-2013, 04:21 PM

This isn't about whether, or not they're people with smart visions, or even if they succeeded with what they set out to do. It's about how they're dealing with the people who disagree with what they have done here, and frankly I don't think it's an awfully great way to express it as said by many people before me.

Being likable, and acting professional/mature about criticism will take you very far no matter what industry you're in.