Religion

**i3670** · 11-10-2013, 12:36 AM

So basically fate and not fate.

What about the self-fulfilling prophecy?

**BAndrew** · 11-10-2013, 12:37 AM

(11-10-2013, 12:36 AM)i3670 Wrote: So basically fate and not fate.

What about the self-fulfilling prophecy?

Yes.

What is this?

**i3670** · 11-10-2013, 12:48 AM

Fate is a tricky subject. If you're about to do something, but choose not to do it. Was that foretold by fate?

I like the Bioshock: Infinite solution. Constants and variables. Some choices are bound to happen and some are not.

I can't really explain the self-fulfilling prophecy well enough, but if you're familiar with the King Oedipus story, it's basically that.

**BAndrew** · 11-10-2013, 12:51 AM

(11-10-2013, 12:48 AM)i3670 Wrote: Fate is a tricky subject. If you're about to do something, but choose not to do it. Was that foretold by fate?

I like the Bioshock: Infinite solution. Constants and variables. Some choices are bound to happen and some are not.

If fate exists then you never chose anything. You have the illusion of choice but in fact it was determined from the start that you are going to do the X action. So it was foretold.

If fate doesn't exist, then you firstly chose action Y and you changed your mind and did action X. So basically you had free will.

P.S. No I am not familiar with it

P.P.S. It's late here and I am going to sleep. So don't expect a quick response.

**i3670** · 11-10-2013, 12:59 AM

Semi-fate.

The King Oedipus story is something like this. King Laius wants a child. An oracle tells him that his future son will kill him, marry his wife and take his throne. To prevent this the king sends away his son to be killed. But the son survives and lives with two people he believes to be his parents. The son learns of this prophecy and runs away to avoid it. On his journey he meets a man which he kills (his real father) and then marries his wife (his mother) and takes his father's throne.

If the king hadn't sent away his son this wouldn't have happened.

**BAndrew** · 11-10-2013, 03:07 PM

Fate exists: That being the case Oedipus didn't have free will. He couldn't do anything to change the prophecy.
Humans have Free will: The whole things is a tragedy and it could be avoided, but it was not.

**Ghieri** · 11-10-2013, 08:44 PM

Humans have free will when they are fully aware of the consequences of their actions, IMO. Unless some outside force is making them have only one smart choice.

**i3670** · 11-10-2013, 08:59 PM

Would you agree that if fate exists all our actions are meaningless because they're predetermined?

**Kreekakon** · 11-10-2013, 09:04 PM

(11-10-2013, 08:59 PM)i3670 Wrote: Would you agree that if fate exists all our actions are meaningless because they're predetermined?

Would his agreement then hold any value at all given that if fate was true then whether, or not he agrees or not was also predetermined as well?

...ugh my head.

**BAndrew** · 11-10-2013, 09:16 PM

(11-10-2013, 08:59 PM)i3670 Wrote: Would you agree that if fate exists all our actions are meaningless because they're predetermined?

Not exactly meaningless. The future in that case would be unchangeable and free will an illusion. However, we can't predict with any certainity what will happen in the future (at least with our current knowledge) and that's what makes it "fun".

(11-10-2013, 09:04 PM)Kreekakon Wrote: Would his agreement then hold any value at all given that if fate was true then whether, or not he agrees or not was also predetermined as well?

...ugh my head.

Hahahahahahahaha, Yes.