Religion

[Froge]

Statistics should be the cited answer to arguments for faith. The human mind is very good at hasty generalizations, which is the process of exaggerating the importance of a couple of unlikely samples. In the case of faith, people with fatal diseases or injuries who survive miraculously are cited as evidence for a supreme being. However, these cases should not be attributed to anything but luck and coincidence, no matter their frequency, because correlation does not equal cause.

[BAndrew]

@Froge

Excellent point!

Littlewood's law, or adage, states that an individual can expect to experience "miracles" at the rate of about one per month.

Littlewood defines a miracle as an exceptional event of special significance occurring at a frequency of one in a million. He assumes that during the hours in which a human is awake and alert, a human will see or hear one "event" per second, which may be either exceptional or unexceptional. Additionally, Littlewood supposes that a human is alert for about eight hours per day.

As a result a human will in 35 days have experienced under these suppositions about one million events. Accepting this definition of a miracle, one can expect to observe one miraculous event for every 35 days' time, on average – and therefore, according to this reasoning, seemingly miraculous events are actually commonplace.

source: Littlewood's law

Example:

Let’s say one million people have cancer in America (it’s much higher than this), and only one-tenth of one percent experience a spontaneous recovery (it’s actually higher than this). 1,000,000 x .001 = 1,000 people. Out of that cohort of 1,000 people, what are the chances that half a dozen of them have compelling narrative stories worthy of broadcast television? Pretty good! Here is a show you will never see on any television series: “Next, we examine the remarkable fact that 99.99 percent of people who were diagnosed with incurable cancer and were prayed for died anyway. Stay tuned, for you won’t want to miss these stark statistical realities.”



If you drop enough balls some will fall into the highly improbable outside slots. Such “miracles” are statistically guaranteed with large enough numbers.

[daortir]

I personally don't care much about the religion a person believes in or not as long it doesn't make him behave in a way that is disrespectful to me or others.

Faith is a feeling that I am unable to understand as an atheist, and I feel like debating it would be pretty pointless considering I have no idea what faith is about. I could argue with my scientific arguments all day long, they wouldn't be relevant when it comes to feelings and emotions that faith creates.

That's it. I just think that beliefs are something that must be way stronger than arguments and logic because it is some sort of emotion, and as such is transcends logic, bible-quoting and arguments.
I do not have faith and I can only try to understand why strictly rational logic has nothing to do with faith, the same way it has nothing to do with poetry or emotions.

Once again, as long as someone's beliefs don't hurt anyone, I don't see why I would try to change something they are happy with.

[Froge]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacif...09650.html

Theory states that God's law is harsh and unfair, but God himself has said that his law is indeed fair," the sultan said.

[Ghieri]

Theory states that God's law is harsh and unfair, but God himself has said that his law is indeed fair," the sultan said.

My biggest problem with religion right there. Infidels are considered to be amoral sub-human trash in general, but their "morality" comes from God. That means that no matter what God does or says it is automatically considered moral. So killing an entire population? Absolutely just and moral because morality itself was responsible for it.

[daortir]

Theory states that God's law is harsh and unfair, but God himself has said that his law is indeed fair," the sultan said.

My biggest problem with religion right there. Infidels are considered to be amoral sub-human trash in general, but their "morality" comes from God. That means that no matter what God does or says it is automatically considered moral. So killing an entire population? Absolutely just and moral because morality itself was responsible for it.

I think there is a pretty important gap between religious radicalism and religion in general.

Saying you have a problem with religion because of radicalism is pretty close to saying that you have a problem with politics because people have been killed by political belief...

[PutraenusAlivius]

I think that religion is meant to enforce rules. I mean you can tell a kid a thousand times don't steal something or you'll go to jail and he'll still do it. But if you told him once that if you don't steal, then you'll go to heaven, the kid obeys it.

Also, most people believes that if God says so, then doing it will be doing His job, you'll go to Heaven. This (sort of) makes it easy for people to say that he got a revelation from God telling him to kill someone. That is awful.

Also, a few religions (and by few I mean one) have very strict rules like Islam. They told us that women cannot put their hair for show. Then why did God make them anyway?

[BAndrew]

Assuming God exists:
Why did God create humans and the universe? I mean if he is all-knowing then he already knows everything. What's the point?

[Ghieri]

Theory states that God's law is harsh and unfair, but God himself has said that his law is indeed fair," the sultan said.

My biggest problem with religion right there. Infidels are considered to be amoral sub-human trash in general, but their "morality" comes from God. That means that no matter what God does or says it is automatically considered moral. So killing an entire population? Absolutely just and moral because morality itself was responsible for it.

I think there is a pretty important gap between religious radicalism and religion in general.

Saying you have a problem with religion because of radicalism is pretty close to saying that you have a problem with politics because people have been killed by political belief...

Not at all. Religion is, itself, radical. Sure you can casually follow it but according to the religion unless you are a radical(Not necessarily in the sense that you are violent, just dedicate your entire life to it and put it before literally everything, including your needs) then you're not doing it right. You can compartmentalize it but then Scripture calls you an infidel or unenlightened or some variation. It becomes a social thing, or a personal comfort thing. An accessory. A very far cry from what it was designed for.

Politics is a process, not a creed. Not a good comparison.


EDIT:

Assuming God exists:
Why did God create humans and the universe? I mean if he is all-knowing then he already knows everything. What's the point?

I'm not sure who you're talking to, but my two cents are just that God has a compulsive need for validation, so he created groupies. That's why I believe(not literally) he created a punishment, because if you aren't sucking his dick he doesn't want you around. He also created a bunch of bulllshit rules like not eating meat on Sunday because heaven is a boring place and if you can make your groupies do anything you have unlimited entertainment. That's why he wants the most dedicated in heaven... boredom dies. Probably toss the humans out when they become boring again.

[Focalize]

Honestly though it's not necessary to associate faith with religion. Faith happens on a personal level, and quoting a friend of mine "religion is a tool used to control the masses". If we have a problem with religion it is usually the way it institutionalizes beliefs. Stuff like "God said this and God said that therefore you must do this and that to be good". I am spiritual but sceptical of the idea of an omnipotent supreme being that gets churches/equivalent to force believers to do certain things to get something back in return, i.e. an afterlife, a wish etc. If morality is the basis of religion, then is this kind of "trade" really moral? It is fair alright. Are things done out of "goodness" or just self-interest? I don't understand the rules that were "set by God", maybe they came from holy books? The last time I read the bible for fun, I was telling myself how absurd it would be if people took the literal meaning instead of figurative messages away from these books. So as Aldi mentioned, the establishment of religion can indeed be radical in the sense that it's simply too intense and structured. There's always a set of standards that a "good" man must meet, such discrimination, many persecution, much sad. Like come on, everyone is a special tiny snowflake. Enough passive aggressive bashing, now nothing is created for no reason. Think about why religion is created, a possible explanation is that it ties people of similar beliefs/faith together. It's meant to keep communities together especially if they're facing difficulties(ones that this generation would never encounter). It's a place people can turn to for guidance when they're lost. It's also a way to let go of things, and hope that an omnipotent power will take care of it accordingly. I personally find life more colourful with a healthy dose of faith; religion shouldn't be a taboo but perhaps just a way someone chooses to live. It only becomes a problem when power is involved, as all humans are power hungry by nature.

Btw guise I'm looking to join a cult that worships cats, anyone?