New Game Design/Gameplay needed for dealing with Enemies in future games

[PathOS]

SOMA is my GOTY of the year so far, I enjoyed almost every aspect of it.

I actually enjoyed the monster encounters, I thought that compared to Amnesia's predictable monsters they were much more unique, and it helped that each Monster was only encountered once, or confined to a section of the game.

But that said, I definitely have noticed a trend in the overall feedback and critique from the critics and consumers that the monster encounters overall were not very fulfilling. I don't agree entirely, I found several of the enemies like Disco-Ball-Head (I liked how it took the "don't look at it" from Amnesia and ran with it where you were in real deep trouble fast if you did) pretty fun and challenging to get around. But that said, in the end, the main ways to proceed through enemies is to run/hide/sneak by them, same as it ever was.

I think Frictional themselves would agree that the run/hide/sneak mechanic is getting a bit played out, and of course any attempt to use that game design will inevitably lead to comparisons to games that took said gameplay and ran with it full throttle, such as Outlast, or the much higher-budgeted Alien: Isolation.

What could be done though? I personally haven't the slightest clue, and I'm the last one who would ever suggest something like adding in "Combat" systems to such a game. I agree with the articles that have stated that Horror works best when it is nebulous and unknown, and by allowing you to fight back diminishes it greatly. Case in point Alien: isolation, which wasn't really "scary" to me at all, other than the tension of "being caught". The Alien was a known quantity and something we'd seen in media over and over again, and its algorithms of tracking were quite, "cheap".

The best I can think of is to take the ideas that I think were slightly here in SOMA, where Enemies were clearly thought out very well with how they fit into their respective environments, and run with them to the next level, such as using environmental puzzles and such to deal with enemies, or in certain areas, maybe make available the use of "weapons" to deal with something only in specific situations.

It would also be great if there was a way to make the "chasing" of enemies be more "interactive" as well. It's tough in the first-person, but it'd be great to maybe create some ways to keep enemies at bay somehow without breaking the feel of Horror:



Of course the trick as Frictional themselves have written about in their blog, is that once you start introducing more "gameplay" mechanics to deal with Horror entities, then you run the risk of making these Horrific monstrosities become too obviously "programmed" (I ran into this with the "Proxy" and its circular patrolling of the area when I locked myself in a room to avoid it).

Again, I wouldn't know what the answer is, but I think many would agree that there does need to be some iteration upon the current enemy schema.

[Radiance]

I agree but some hardcore Amnesia fans will disagree I assume. Nonetheless, I respect their attitude for Amnesia and SOMA .
Awhile ago, I wrote some proposal for new gameplay styles with throwable "bombs."
I think that classical shooter playstyle (Doom,Dead space) wouldn't be a satisfactory solution either.
Something in between.
My view is that weapons should become tools for disable/stun the creature and maybe to kill if the story is going that way.
For example electric,frozen, poison states are in option for this.

Also, making something as part of the lore is welcomed. For example, in System shock there are psionics

Spoiler below!

and in Bioshock there is great plasmid game mechanic.
I remember in Doom3 and Half life there is kinda gravity gun which uses boomerang mechanic. It can throw enemy's features back at them.

Spoiler below!

This gameplay could be optional. So, if player chooses not to, he could run,dodge and hide. Different players could choose different tactics and the game could give new experience.
Another option is to choose player's class in the beginning of the game:
->"fateless/helpless" character doesn't know his destiny which awaits him and he can't defend himself
->"engineer/scholar" knows how to built necessary tools for his survival
Overall, playstyles could be balanced and improved.

[vsky61]

i also agree that the sneak/hide/run type of gameplay kind of a bit too linear if you know what i mean....not much of interaction between the enemy lore wise frictional was an avid survival horror creator themselves especially that one penumbra game that you were given a chance to protect yourself with a pickaxe but was left alone cuz of overpowering the player thus throwing off the survival aspect of every survival horror formula : the feeling of vulnerability given the type of survival horror game

but given a chance to develop a new game design for dealing with enemies would be hard ........ the fact that shinji mikami said himself " it is hard to scare new people than years ago"

in comparison with other games like alien isolation as simple in context a player armed to the teeth against an invulnerable enemy would less likely left you vulnerable and hopeless giving only a fraction of time to hide your self and plan your next move

if only aliens colonial marines was like that given that you a marine wielding a pulse rifle with only 3 mags and a one hit death kind of alien like in isolation the fact that this time you can kill an but only to find out that the alien you killed caused a chain reaction causing three more aliens to come .........

after playing this game though SOMA was more of a story-driven atmosphere horror game i think the run/hide/sneak is a good choice


story rich games such as this a survival horror game are emphasized on exploration and less on enemies (de-emphasizing the combat system itself)
but one thing is sure with survival horrors
a risk/reward kind of playstyles.....
an example
you as a player given a tool that could illuminate your path(i.e. light beam) that can also protect you in an expense of your life
would you risk your life energy to protect yourself on an enemy chasing you? or use your light to outrun your enemy but dims out when your stamina gets depleted
or hide in expense of your sanity....
add it with clever map design and a story rich lore you got yourself an awesome survival horror game
so sir Brus is correct
classical shooters in this kind of games would be unsatisfactory

but use an object as a tool rather a weapon
or make it part of the lore like Fatal frame series the camera obscura
or the sight jack of the Siren series

[FlawlessHappiness]

Agreed.

Some of the first monsters had rules. And rules are very good for monsters.

With one, you cannot look at it. With another you cannot make loud sounds. And one tracks movement. There is always a way to avoid the monster, yet sometimes you will be forced into a situation where it's hard to obey the rule. And that's how an encounter should be.

In the 'reset router' area, the monster was actually very very dumb. All you had to do was figure it out. I realized this, when I was trappen and instead of running, all I did was stand still... I didn't even look away from it. I just stopped doing anything. Monster walked right by me.

As long as a monster has a key it's both fair to the player but can still be terrifying.


The 'suit guy' at TAU was super annoying. I couldn't hide from him. Couldn't even run because of slow doors. I eventually got past him anyway. Fortunately.

[Fortigurn]

But that said, I definitely have noticed a trend in the overall feedback and critique from the critics and consumers that the monster encounters overall were not very fulfilling. I don't agree entirely...

This was a very well thought out and expressed post, thanks. I'll only make a few comments, and i tremble as I do so, in the full knowledge that I'm not remotely a computer programmer and I realize that it's a whole lot easier to sit down and think of "improvements" than it is to do the hard grinding work of coding them and making them work. I am certainly not here to tell the Frictional team how to do their job, or how to write their next game.

I think Frictional themselves would agree that the run/hide/sneak mechanic is getting a bit played out, and of course any attempt to use that game design will inevitably lead to comparisons to games that took said gameplay and ran with it full throttle, such as Outlast, or the much higher-budgeted Alien: Isolation.

I'd say the mechanic is totally sound, and it's still a very important feature. I just see the need for it being complemented with additional enemy AI mechanics, and enhanced with a little more variety in enemy behaviour.

What could be done though? I personally haven't the slightest clue, and I'm the last one who would ever suggest something like adding in "Combat" systems to such a game. I agree with the articles that have stated that Horror works best when it is nebulous and unknown, and by allowing you to fight back diminishes it greatly.

Totally agree.

The best I can think of is to take the ideas that I think were slightly here in SOMA, where Enemies were clearly thought out very well with how they fit into their respective environments, and run with them to the next level, such as using environmental puzzles and such to deal with enemies, or in certain areas, maybe make available the use of "weapons" to deal with something only in specific situations.

I would like to see a lot more made of the environment. A couple of inspired players realised that they could use the security systems to lock enemies into rooms. That's brilliant, that's actually emergent gameplay (which I think is the holy grail of top tier gaming), and it was made possible because of highly intelligent level design. I'd like to see a lot more of that. Locking doors, or blocking them with furniture and objects, all kinds of indirect ways of delaying or obstructing enemies. I see this as ways to"create some ways to keep enemies at bay somehow without breaking the feel of Horror".

[Googolplex]

I don't have anything against a "combat system" when it is similar to Penumbra Overture.
As long the game don't turn into a "fun competition" it is a nice feature. But I always suggested that the best horror is caused when the player lose his weapons. Then he felt more helpless than if he would never had weapons. So you should be able to kill enemies in some "very special" way for the first 30 % of the game. The other 70 % you should be helpless.

But don't understand me wrong. It should never be fun. Overture also was not fun. So when this combat system works as well as it does in Overture, then it would be very nice!

[EnDash]

this reminds me of this youtube video talking about designing cthulhu for video games:




TL;DR:
cthulhu is the embodiment of madness, human minds can't handle his existence let alone fight it. the reason he is so scary to so many people is because there is nothing that can "beat" him. you can only run away.

the moment you introduce combat, all that changes to "dangerous but manageable". suddenly you are not running for your life, but trying to figure out a way to kill that creature. it becomes a game of cat and mouse and not fragile men facing alien monstrosities.

this is why alexander in amnesia is not scary, because 10 minutes into the game you are told he is "old and weak" and that you should go and "kill him". there is nothing scary in that.

compare that with clarence from black plague, he can read your memories, subvert your reality, make you forget stuff and see things that re not there. he is a virus invading your body but also a personality spawned from your mind. how do you even begin to deal with something like that?

making enemies is hard, and making them scary is hardest. the best horror enemy in any game i ever played was the water lurker from amnesia and i think many would agree with me. it wasn't perfect but it came the closest.

[Radiance]

quoting EnDash
That's true for the main boss and Cthulhu's omnipresence throughout the game but it is not the only creature/metaphor-concept you deal with.

Facing Chtuhlu for example in the end of the game or periodically before, should be some scripted events or sequence of puzzles which player must solve without using weapons, of course, because of the nature how Lovecraft imagined it or how developers imagined it.

But what about the other 80-90% of the gameplay?
This is were we diverge our opinions. I think player should choose if he want to engage himself or not.
Furthermore, the player should be able to use environment,skills and wit to his advantage.

[Googolplex]

I think "skills" is not the right word. That sounds like playing a RPG. In a horror game the player shouldn't be like a hero where you have to advance his skills. It's important to play a normal, unimportant person without any special skills.

An other ghing is that you shouldn't collect items in the environment like tinderboxes, oil or medi packs. This always doesn't feel organic or plausible world design. Then you have to ask "who has left this here?" It feels like the game creators placed some items around the world waiting for you to get found and picked up. I think this is a big improvement in SOMA. There should be of course a lot of useless stuff to interact with. Interactions are a must-have. But a world with collectable items feels "created". I think you should only find items at places where they are logical. For example oil in machine room, tinderboxes in a chest or medi packs in a hospital station. But not randomly placed in the world. Important is to create a world that wants to get explored story-wise.

[Radiance]

In that sentence I didn't mean skills as in RPG games.
I mean, why not collect scraps and use your skills to built usefull stuff/items? So, you start as unimportant person but you evolve learning things as in life. RPG survival game could be well done quite with an appraisal.

If you were put is some strange situation, wouldn't you have urge to make something usefull to help you along the way? (you don't have to answer that, it's a retorical question)
Different items could react with some things and figuring out could be quite a puzzle.