[spoiler] um...Could we not just have come back for him?

[Statyk]

What I never understood is Simon is in an "artificial" body so-to-speak. With no head, he cannot eat, cannot breathe. But with the cortex, he can see and hear. If I were him stuck on the planet, why not go to the surface? The Earth may be destroyed by a comet but it would still be quite a site to see and it's more real that the ark. He only needs to worry about battery power (considering that's how you kill the other Simon), so go see what the Earth is like in 100 years... Idk, it kinda bothered me that he seemed like he was forever trapped in the ocean. Even if he took Simon 2 with him (I would take my clone with me, you kiddin' me? We would be best friends) so he wouldn't be lonely.

The ark is a cool idea and all but it's not Earth. Shit man.

[PiratesFr33k]

Yeah... at first I wanted to reply to the original post in here but then I saw that most of the things I wanted to say were already answered (Simon-3 being stuck down there, Simon-3 understood the concept of copying only after he experienced it from the Simon-2 fiasco but Simon-2 wouldn't understand).

As to how Simon-3 could maybe still get back to Simon-2... well, it could work. IF he finds some structure gel, which then works its magic on the Omnitool and/or Catherine's chip. He could then open the airlock, find his way back to the climber and ride it back up to Omicron.

Do you guys think that there IS any structure gel down where Simon-3 is trapped? Were parts of the WAU in there? I didn't see any. Also... Simon-3 killed the WAU in Alpha, so... there shouldn't be anything left of it... (however, there were still those "get your health back" thingies after Simon-3 killed the WAU...)

Of course the event of Catherine's suicide busting the omnitool complicates things [...]

I never thought of the final scene (before the credits) as Catherine killing herself. I just took it as the machine being overloaded and thus malfunctioning.

Now that I think about this... I don't believe Catherine would kill herself. She never approved of the "continuity suicides" people commited after their brain scans. Well... okay... maybe she just saw those suicides as a hindrance because her Ark project got put on hold more than once because of those suicides...

[cantremember]

Also she broke mid-sentence, my understanding of it is also that she didn't commit suicide, but the hardware malfunctioned, perhaps due to the ocean pressure.

Simon-3 could accept it more easily after being copied, because he wasn't the one being left to die, he was being selfish and the reality only struck him after HE would have to be left behind after launching the Ark.
I think he believed he would be the lucky one and his copy would just have to deal with the consequences.

[WALP]

Also she broke mid-sentence, my understanding of it is also that she didn't commit suicide, but the hardware malfunctioned, perhaps due to the ocean pressure.

Simon-3 could accept it more easily after being copied, because he wasn't the one being left to die, he was being selfish and the reality only struck him after HE would have to be left behind after launching the Ark.
I think he believed he would be the lucky one and his copy would just have to deal with the consequences.

But how is Simon-2 left to die if they can just come back for him?

---

Yeah... at first I wanted to reply to the original post in here but then I saw that most of the things I wanted to say were already answered (Simon-3 being stuck down there, Simon-3 understood the concept of copying only after he experienced it from the Simon-2 fiasco but Simon-2 wouldn't understand).

As to how Simon-3 could maybe still get back to Simon-2... well, it could work. IF he finds some structure gel, which then works its magic on the Omnitool and/or Catherine's chip. He could then open the airlock, find his way back to the climber and ride it back up to Omicron.

He does not specifically need Cathrine's chip or omnitool. All of the people who are dead in abyss/tau/phi could only get down there if at least one of them had an omnitool with access to the climber and sites down there.

Regardless he has plenty of structure gel all over his "own" body, so if he can lose an arm, he can also share a bit with Cathrine's omnitool. it should really not need that much gel.

[Drzappleswag]

Simon 3 doesn't have the capacity to rescue Simon 2. He's in a Pilot Seat at the bottom of the Abyss.

He can't backtrack because half way between Tau to Omicron has no lights.

Furthermore they certainly can't just climb up to the surface. They're robots. They can't swim. They are stuck at the bottom of the Sea.

I guess theoretically Simon 3 could risk his life and potentially rescue Simon 2 but that isn't a plot hole. You were given the choice to kill him. If you did that isn't the developers fault.

You made the rash decision based on false information to kill Simon 2. If you feel like you screwed up because you didn't know better at the time, it's no one's fault but your own.

[cantremember]

Even if he comes back for Simon-2, they are stuck on the ruins of Pathos-II with all the horrors roaming around, until they die. Having a disgruntled copy of him in another suit to keep him company would probably give him little comfort when he wakes up.

[WALP]

Simon 3 doesn't have the capacity to rescue Simon 2. He's in a Pilot Seat at the bottom of the Abyss.

He can't backtrack because half way between Tau to Omicron has no lights.

Furthermore they certainly can't just climb up to the surface. They're robots. They can't swim. They are stuck at the bottom of the Sea.

I guess theoretically Simon 3 could risk his life and potentially rescue Simon 2 but that isn't a plot hole. You were given the choice to kill him. If you did that isn't the developers fault.

You made the rash decision based on false information to kill Simon 2. If you feel like you screwed up because you didn't know better at the time, it's no one's fault but your own.

chill the fuck out much?

you act as though I am blaming the developers, or that I mad about having killed Simon-2 just because I now think letting him live would have been better.

The thing with lights seem to be the best explanation so far, but considering what Simon has been through I honestly don't see why he would not risk it again, what's left for him at phi anyway? also he does not have to crawl, the climber is still working and all he needs to do is find an omnitool.

It's not as though it's a crime that the developers have a tiny plothole here an there, as long as it does not show in the first playthrough then it wont be in the way of the experience, and it certainly was not for me. Really even if the devs realized this option, I think it's okay to look the other way for the sake of telling their story. its fiction everything does not have to be logical.

But as one of the people who have already played the game, I think it's interesting to think about what would have been best to do from a more logical standpoint. And I think that had Catherine and Simon-3 actually thought things through, then it would have been best to come back for Simon-2. If he is going to die, it would be best if he could die together with them, and knowing the truth. Really even with the risk of failing, they could just set his battery to drain in case they don't come back in time.

[Drzappleswag]

Simon 3 doesn't have the capacity to rescue Simon 2. He's in a Pilot Seat at the bottom of the Abyss.

He can't backtrack because half way between Tau to Omicron has no lights.

Furthermore they certainly can't just climb up to the surface. They're robots. They can't swim. They are stuck at the bottom of the Sea.

I guess theoretically Simon 3 could risk his life and potentially rescue Simon 2 but that isn't a plot hole. You were given the choice to kill him. If you did that isn't the developers fault.

You made the rash decision based on false information to kill Simon 2. If you feel like you screwed up because you didn't know better at the time, it's no one's fault but your own.

chill the fuck out much?

you act as though I am blaming the developers, or that I mad about having killed Simon-2 just because I now think letting him live would have been better.

The thing with lights seem to be the best explanation so far, but considering what Simon has been through I honestly don't see why he would not risk it again, what's left for him at phi anyway? also he does not have to crawl, the climber is still working and all he needs to do is find an omnitool.

It's not as though it's a crime that the developers have a tiny plothole here an there, as long as it does not show in the first playthrough then it wont be in the way of the experience, and it certainly was not for me. Really even if the devs realized this option, I think it's okay to look the other way for the sake of telling their story. its fiction everything does not have to be logical.

But as one of the people who have already played the game, I think it's interesting to think about what would have been best to do from a more logical standpoint. And I think that had Catherine and Simon-3 actually thought things through, then it would have been best to come back for Simon-2. If he is going to die, it would be best if he could die together with them, and knowing the truth. Really even with the risk of failing, they could just set his battery to drain in case they don't come back in time.

My goal wasn't to come off condencending. I apologize if that's how it was perceived. I was merely stating how your point of view is completely solid (Besides just leaving the sea part). But your reasoning, doesn't result as a Plot Hole was my point.

As a player you were given the choice between killing him or not under the information you knew at the time.

If you left him alive, it only legitimizes the fact you made the right decision once you reach the end of the game. The developers "probably" intended this to be a theory a player can conclude after he beat the game and either feel remorse for killing him or feel joy if left him alive, that there's a possibility Simon 2 and 3 could beat the world together.

Personally, I believe canonically speaking, Simon wouldn't prefer it this way because from the beginning his character revoked the idea of reviving the dead. And he often implied or explicitly stated that having two of any one entity was inherently cruel and wrong. So although you were given the choice, I believe the ethical decision that Simon would have made at the time would be killing Simon 2, ultimately making void of this argument entirely.

I believe the majority of the Community would agree with this idea. It's just his character.
But choice itself was necessary despite their technically being only one right solution. Because the weight of hard choices wouldn't be so heavy if we the player didn't get the experience of actually deciding for ourself.

This was why this part of the game was impactful to me. Probably even more than the ending.

[hollowleviathan]

Even if you picked the option to, you didn't really kill Simon-2, you just drained his battery so he doesn't wake up. He's not otherwise damaged, and the station clearly still has power so you could either re-charge the battery or find him a new one once you get back. Heck, you could stick Catherine's cortex chip in that body replacing Simon-2 if you like. She'd surely to able to repair the Omni-tool.

The trip back up is hazardous with the leviathan etc, but I think it's still possible, nothing is broken irrevocably that he needs to get back up. Simon-3 has a lot of time on his hands, he can just wait for the Abyss currents to calm down if he wants.

Sure, there are horrors awaiting outside the door, but honestly, they could just slip out the door for the abyss and start walking up the ocean floor to the surface. Why not? If I had 100s of years, I'd want to see if there were any bunkers of survivors. WAU might even calm down if you can start up (real or simulated) signals from the surface that humanity is preserved.

[Striker]

Technically speaking, I don't see why they can't just create an API (being serious) from the Omnitool into the ARK prototype, and just chill out inside the ARK, or even create an ARK 3 where they can hang out.

I mean...they got tons of time on their hands, so this would answer the whole copy dilemma, cause Cat gets "restarted" every time the Omnitool comes online, and it seems she is a continuation, not a copy.

UNLESS, every time the Omnitool gets plugged into a console, the "old" version of her dies off.

I guess the question is really, did Cat's cortex chip survive the Omnitool blowing up? If yes, there's still a chance to go on living down there, there's still tons of resources they can use to rebuild and with the WAU out of commission, the structural gel will stop blowing up additional resources.

DAMN I WANT A SEQUEL