Suggestion: New "Monster Event" Ideas?

[xxalucard]

After playing through Amnesia and a bunch of custom stories, I felt that a lot of the monster events (including those in the actual game) were predictable/repetitive. Not trying to say it wasn't a very fun or scary game, I'm just hoping there are some new kinds of "Monster" related events in A Machine For Pigs.

Some criticism I have for the current "monster events" implemented in Amnesia:


1. *Most* monsters disappear after you hide for a little while. This isn't such a bad thing, but the music cues give way too much away-- you always know when a monster is looking for you and when it's fully gone. I understand that there are still surprises when the monster first attacks you, but I think it's too re-assuring and easy to simply hide and wait for the music to indicate your safe.

My suggestion: Instead of a timer that makes the monster disappear automatically after a certain amount of time when it doesn't detect you; you should use a different variable. The music cue makes it too easy to just sit and wait until your safe-- there should be more situations where you have to solve a puzzle, get to a certain point, or possibly have to stun the monster and run right by him, etc. Basically I think that if you're going to use the basic "hide until the monster goes away" idea, it should be very minimal-- not the most common interaction with them in the game. Also, there should be no music identification of when you're safe (unless you're doing this to mislead the player into thinking they're safe...) or it should be done very minimally at least. You should -never- feel safe....and this brings me to my next point-->

2. Get rid of the closet safe rooms. It's wayyyy too easy and "safe" when you just open up a random wooden closet, walk into it, close the doors, and make it impossible for the monster to attack you. If anything, the monster should be able to destroy closets at random-- at least dissuading the player from using them or feeling 100% safe when inside them. I understand you need SOME areas to be safe in, but random wooden closets can easily be abused throughout the game and shouldn't be.

3. Similar gameplay setups to Justine-- Or at least a difficulty option for some players to switch too. I really liked (despite how frustrating it was) the idea of "one hit and your dead" with no save points-- that really is the definition of fear in a game. I'm not sure if the ENTIRE game should be like that, depending on how long it is-- but some form of this should definitely enter into it. At least an option for it...I liked it

4. There should be some sort of "random monster appearance" system-- I shouldn't be able to sit in a dark room for 10 minutes without fear of anything attacking me. It would be cool if I have some sort of dread about trying to figure out a puzzle or find things-- that the longer I spend somewhere the more likely a monster may randomly appear to attack me. I'm not sure how exactly this should be implemented-- I could see it being annoying if the formula for how "random" it should be doesn't work well all the time. I basically just don't want to feel safe when I linger around somewhere.


That's basically a short little criticism/idea list. randomly felt like sharing. I think the closer the devs get to not letting the player feel "safe," the better a job they're doing. I'd at least like to see options that let the game lean in that direction

[SonOfLiberty796]

1. *Most* monsters disappear after you hide for a little while. This isn't such a bad thing, but the music cues give way too much away-- you always know when a monster is looking for you and when it's fully gone. I understand that there are still surprises when the monster first attacks you, but I think it's too re-assuring and easy to simply hide and wait for the music to indicate your safe.

My suggestion: Instead of a timer that makes the monster disappear automatically after a certain amount of time when it doesn't detect you; you should use a different variable. The music cue makes it too easy to just sit and wait until your safe-- there should be more situations where you have to solve a puzzle, get to a certain point, or possibly have to stun the monster and run right by him, etc. Basically I think that if you're going to use the basic "hide until the monster goes away" idea, it should be very minimal-- not the most common interaction with them in the game. Also, there should be no music identification of when you're safe (unless you're doing this to mislead the player into thinking they're safe...) or it should be done very minimally at least. You should -never- feel safe....and this brings me to my next point-->

2. Get rid of the closet safe rooms. It's wayyyy too easy and "safe" when you just open up a random wooden closet, walk into it, close the doors, and make it impossible for the monster to attack you. If anything, the monster should be able to destroy closets at random-- at least dissuading the player from using them or feeling 100% safe when inside them. I understand you need SOME areas to be safe in, but random wooden closets can easily be abused throughout the game and shouldn't be.

3. Similar gameplay setups to Justine-- Or at least a difficulty option for some players to switch too. I really liked (despite how frustrating it was) the idea of "one hit and your dead" with no save points-- that really is the definition of fear in a game. I'm not sure if the ENTIRE game should be like that, depending on how long it is-- but some form of this should definitely enter into it. At least an option for it...I liked it

4. There should be some sort of "random monster appearance" system-- I shouldn't be able to sit in a dark room for 10 minutes without fear of anything attacking me. It would be cool if I have some sort of dread about trying to figure out a puzzle or find things-- that the longer I spend somewhere the more likely a monster may randomly appear to attack me. I'm not sure how exactly this should be implemented-- I could see it being annoying if the formula for how "random" it should be doesn't work well all the time. I basically just don't want to feel safe when I linger around somewhere.

Shhhhh!!!! Don't make Amnesia scarier damn it! -.-

Haha I only kid. These are some pretty good ideas! Especially the "random monster appearance". My idea on that is similar (or exact) as yours. I was thinking that EVERYWHERE you go (no matter where, unless there are those "safe rooms" (like in Amnesia where you enter the "Guest Room" even though there was a monster, it felt well lit and safe in there) ) there is a random timer that activates a monster. An example is this: if someone leaves their computer to get something but forgets to pause the game, a monster may appear out of no where, and he didn't expect it at all. Or a better example is the longer you stay in a room ,lets say, finding a key, the more the chances a monster will appear.

And when you're in the dark, monsters appear easier and quicker, but if you're around a light source, it'll take a while for a monster to appear, but can still happen.

[cantremember]

I agree with the music cues and that monsters should sometimes be more random and not so pre-scripted so much (making it surprising only on the first playthrough).

I don't agree so much on the no-saving, because while it does make the game tenser, it's very frustrating and time-consuming to replay the beginning of the game over and over to get to the part where you die again. At least there should be autosave points at certain spots instead of being able to save anywhere.

I agree on the closet thing, but I didn't remember it being a big issue in Amnesia. I only remember one instance where you could hide from a monster by hiding in a closet.

Also hallucinations and sound effects should be random. In Amnesia it's easy to tell a monster sound you hear is just an effect because there is no monster-is-searching-for-you music playing, and they happen at the same spots everytime if you replay the game. It would be better if you have no idea if it's your mind playing tricks due to low sanity or if it's a real monster (that would add more tension and also add an extra incentive to actually try to stay in the light and keep your sanity high)

[Chrysler]

Definitely agree with most of your points. One of the (few) things I didn't like about Amnesia: TDD were the heavily scripted monster encounters. You picked up a drill and almost instantly heard a grunt coming your way. The easiest solution probably would be to implement a small (but variable) delay after you pick something up or enter a zone where something happens.
Even better would be something like the "random monster appeareance system" as xxalucard called it. It shouldn't be that the player knows that nothing will happen if he doesn't pick up an item/enter a new room.

Concerning the no-save-option of Justine, yes I liked that, too. While that obviously doesn't scale to a full-length game like Amnesia, I'd still love to see it included in one form or another.

[Unearthlybrutal]

I agree with you.
As I'm making my own mod, I've tried to make things more different:

*Most* monsters disappear after you hide for a little while.

I've disabled this in my mod
I've edited the monsters, so that they have no music and they will not disappear even if go hiding to the other side of the earth.

Get rid of the closet safe rooms.

Closets are full of crap in my mod.

There should be some sort of "random monster appearance" system

Not the exact "random" system, but quite similar system.
I'm not telling yet, I leave it to be some kind of a surprise


Sorry for advertising my mod

[Desperate4God]

These are great suggestions, but in my opinion, you should be able to (theoretically) beat the game without dying. For me, this makes the story make a little more sense. Therefore, I think the idea where the monsters would sometimes break open the closet you're hiding in, wouldn't really work. Because you would always the small chance of dying and being able to do nothing about it. But other than this, I agree with these ideas whole-heartedly, especially changing the music, it is simply too easy to know when they are gone.

[hainesftw]

You basically summed up my thoughts on the issues. I don't believe monsters despawned in Penumbra: Black Plague, so if they either reverted to that or did as you said and gave no music/sound cues to when it went away, the terror would be much heightened. And more random monster spawns would be pretty terrifying as well, but they would have to work on a lot of code to ensure that you wouldn't just be guaranteed an instant death by a monster spawning 5 feet in front of you around a corner; that would just be cheap and detract from the experience.

[Xanthos]

That's a good Idea. I'm going to make a random float timer for my story. and make every closet to be destroyed into wooden planks unless metal after a certain time a monsters infront of it. I'm ridding of the monster music except for the chase scenes I'm going to put custom music. The whole restart on death is a bit crazy. I will upload different Amnesia stories. There will be an easy download(Few Monsters, Easier Chases and less scares) A Normal(Normal thingy) And a hard. (When you enter a map, I will add a checkpoint that will teleport you to a hidden spot off the map that starts a separate credits saying(You are dead[br]Bitch![br][br][br]You chose hard[br]so...[br]Gameover on death!))

May I have permission to use your ideas?
I will add your name in the credits and on the thread!

[Elven]

most of stuff u said is very scriptable...

sadly there aren't many great scripters ^^

[xxalucard]

May I have permission to use your ideas?

I will add your name in the credits and on the thread!

of course, anyone could (and hopefully will) use any/all my ideas, you don't have to ask


i appreciate the responses-- and i guess i might have over-stated the "closet safe room" issue, my point mainly had to do with being able to be completely safe somewhere (besides an intended new area).

i also had a few more thoughts on monsters:


5. I liked the invisible "water lurker" monster, but jumping on crates or other things (to stay out of the water) got kind of tedious. I could also just stand on a random crate and know the monster couldn't touch me, as well as make a run for a really far away crate or door and outrun the monster half the time. I know he was only in one or two small sections, but I hope it's redone in the next game.

-- For example, there was a custom story I played where there was a harmless -normal- (if you can call it that) "invisible monster" that followed you around on ground level. You could see it's footsteps with little clouds of dust on the ground. It would be cool if some type of "invisible following" monster was implemented that could actually hurt you, and you went back and forth between hallucinating hearing footsteps behind you and the monster really being there behind you. Just like what cantremember said-->

Also hallucinations and sound effects should be random. In Amnesia it's
easy to tell a monster sound you hear is just an effect because there is
no monster-is-searching-for-you music playing, and they happen at the
same spots everytime if you replay the game. It would be better if you
have no idea if it's your mind playing tricks due to low sanity or if
it's a real monster (that would add more tension and also add an extra
incentive to actually try to stay in the light and keep your sanity
high)

6. Also with what Chrysler said -->

You picked up a drill and almost instantly heard a grunt coming your
way. The easiest solution probably would be to implement a small (but
variable) delay after you pick something up or enter a zone where
something happens.

the whole "pick up a key item and get attacked by a monster" became relatively predictable-- hopefully that's done away with and either a variable delay (like he said) or some sort of insanity spike instead of just a monster attack. I'm sure there's other better alternatives out there too, I'd just like to see more variation.


7. When you exit and re-enter an area in the main game, the monster is almost always gone. I did it myself to de-spawn a monster right when it appeared further ahead in the area (I just walked out the door to the beginning and went back in to re-load the area). Either you should disable the load-doors behind you, or change the scripting somehow to account for this-- it can be really abused (and sometimes I did it thinking I had to backtrack, not just to abuse it.) I understand that "some people can play abusing things and some people can play 'legit'"...but it would be nice to just make it so no one can really abuse anything-- or at least try to make it that way.

8. More insanity effects and punishment. There was almost no fear of losing sanity in darkness in the main game, save for when an enemy is nearby and you're about to pass out. Your vision gets fuzzy and the controls get a little sluggish and annoying...but that's it. There should be more things like in the game "Eternal Darkness," where you can imagine entire strange events or the environment begins to change. You should also have difficulty figuring out what's real or what's not, like monster sounds and chase music, or perhaps imagined doors that go nowhere (when trying to find the real door out, maybe when running from a real monster, etc). I think the whole insanity feature is greatly under-appreciated and can be used a lot better and with more depth.


that's all for now, and thanks for the replies and other good ideas and stuff