(05-26-2012, 03:34 AM)Putmalk Wrote: Will update this post with my feedback as I progress through the maps. Rangers game is on so I'll probably not finish it tonight (depends how long it is).
First impression:
Spoiler below!
Note had proper text. Very nice and eerie. But, you don't use boxlight at all in here. It looks jarring and, frankly, terrible. Please use a boxlight to make the dark spaces not...pitch black....
Nice music, but window is missing billboards. I'd also put a curtain in front of it, and light_dust particles to make it complete. The lack of point lights/boxlights is becoming noticeable in this second room, and it really needs to be fixed. Plus, these torches on the mansionbase wall look bad. Consider using candlesticks.
Missing text on level door. Where am I heading? I could use this knowledge.
Outside:
Spoiler below!
Lovely atmosphere! Really digging the skybox. I'd propose adding a very large spotlight that acts as the "moonlight". Make sure you cast shadows on all your spotlights!
Big Mansion Room:
Spoiler below!
No idea what to do. Missing sign on the Laboratory sign. Also, LEVEL DOORS NEED TO BE MARKED!!!! Going into the library first, that's what my instincts tell me to do.
Library
Spoiler below!
Love the soundtrack. Please change the text on the door, instead of saying "It's locked, I'll need to open it", just say "It's locked." so that I can use my imagination and really get immersed. Don't tell everything for us! Let us figure it out!
I'm stuck in the Archives. Can't find a way past these bookshelves. Need to find a Storage key. Can't do so. Will leave and return later.
Gonna stop myself here for now.
Every door is locked. That's not fun to keep finding keys. Please reconsider this design decision. Currently in the laboratory. It's nice and all, but the key puzzles won't be fun. Gonna take a break and probably pick this up in a bit.
Wow, thanks for the quick feedback! Yes I started to realize the key thing was getting to be repetitive, perhaps I'll go back and maybe take some out and find other ways for the player to access the rooms. Will also add some lighting to the window of the first map area, that was my first time using the level editor at all so I need to go back and polish that entire map up a bit.
Spoiler below!
What did you think of the Count Wilshire painting scare as well as the library pot exploding? Did you like the claustrophobic design of the library? How are you doing on oil/tinderboxes? About how long did it take you get to the laboratory, and do you like the story so far?
Thanks again for helping out, I will get to work on your suggestions immediately.
Oil and tinderboxes are scarce, but that's kind of negated by starting out with 100% oil in the lantern. >.>
It took me 10 minutes to get to the laboratory, like 2 inside the mansion room, then 1 minute outside, then 6-7 in the library. I didn't finish the library. I can't get out of the Archives with a key. Count Wilshire scare was okay, but I would much have preferred to see a sanity damage effect when it happens. Did not see the library pot explode. Claustrophic design is nice, but I don't know where to find the key??? (once again I repeat, searching for keys is not fun and I will not do it religiously. I play to experience a story and solve puzzles, not searching every nook and cranny. That's not even exploration, that's tedious).
Story so far seemed...hard to follow. Because you're directly talking to the player, which makes it feel like a test or something...I don't know, didn't play for that long to really discover notes.
As for "other ways to access rooms", how about just having them open to start? Why does it have to be such a linear experience? I never design like that...the doors are always open and there are a lot of them, and each one is always different. Inside there are things to read or events or items to collect and stuff. When you restrict us from room to room, it's a bit...boring. I suggest having the major doors either locked or stuck (i.e. crowbar). What you can also do is have a door locked and have a back entrance the player has to find (like the Archives map of Amnesia the Dark Descent. Door the secret bookshelf room is locked, but you can go around, get avalanched in, and go through that way.
Hmmm... I'm thinking what happened is you didn't actually find my little "bookshelf maze" in the library... there's an area near where the window is that you have to crouch to go under a leaning bookshelf, and then you walk through a claustrophobic "maze" of sorts with the bookshelves, and along the way you come across a note that gives you a hint where to find a key to the library storage. I was afraid it might seem as though the area you have to crouch under would appear as a dead end and I suppose I was right. I might do away with the leaning bookshelf to make it more inviting to explore. Or maybe I'll leave a health potion or tinderbox under that bookshelf to encourage the player to crouch and try to get it.
I thought about making more rooms open but I'm afraid if I do so, the player will forgo exploring rooms that contain notes which are crucial to the story and instead just try to finish it all as fast as they can.
I added billboards to the window in the first house, replaced torches with wall lanterns, added a boxlight and added a moon to the outdoor map.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2012, 05:01 AM by bagobonez.)
Hoping that Putmalk didn't get too bored and stop trying... anyone else care to beta test this real quick? It's only about 1/3 of what I have planned, but I want to test out my spacing of scares, puzzles, lantern oil, etc.
Quote:Hmmm... I'm thinking what happened is you didn't actually find my little "bookshelf maze" in the library... there's an area near where the window is that you have to crouch to go under a leaning bookshelf, and then you walk through a claustrophobic "maze" of sorts with the bookshelves
That was unclear that I had to crouch. It looked like I had to jump over it, but I couldn't so I assumed it was impassable.
Quote:I thought about making more rooms open but I'm afraid if I do so, the player will forgo exploring rooms that contain notes which are crucial to the story and instead just try to finish it all as fast as they can.
That's their own fault, then. :/ Don't force your story on them, reward exploration.
Going to try this again now. Will update this post with my feedback.
Library (Part II)
Spoiler below!
You need to check "Cast Shadows" on the spotlights coming from the window, so that it looks more realistic. You'll thank me later. Finally ducked under the bookshelf, the space is so small it doesn't look possible to that (looks more probable to jump over. Consider correcting. Found the note, and a little jump scare with the pot falling down, but it didn't make me jump. I would consider a small sanity hit there.
Okay, went into Library Storage, found the key. Key puzzles are becoming overwhelming (to put it frank, you have more keys in this Library map than I have throughout my entire 13 map playable custom story demo right now).
Laboratory
Spoiler below!
I have this Laboratory Key, and it's useless on all of the doors. So now I'm going to have to try to leave and go upstairs. ...this is just searching for a door for the key to be used on. Boring, not gonna lie.
Top Room
Spoiler below!
Barricaded in. I guess I have no where else to go. I have a useless laboratory key and a door that won't open. What now? O_O
Laboratory Part II
Spoiler below!
Oh hai random key in stove...? Why is it there? O_O Do you remember in Amnesia the Dark Descent, how the keys to progress were hidden in plain sight or at the end of a map? That's exactly why - to prevent random searching for the key which isn't fun.
By the way, I noticed you have more oil sources than tinderboxes. Should be the other way around - should want to conserve lantern and use tinderboxes. Right now, I'm just lantern spamming because I got a free refill in the Dissection Room (which is unnecessarily locked).
Top Room
Spoiler below!
Used bone saw on wooden planks. Legend of Zelda sound just played? O_O LMAOOOO!!!! It's funny, but out of place in a horror game. Anyway, going to advance further and see what happens.
At this point I expect every cheap trick to hide keys to open obnoxiously locked doors. Yup, found key puzzle inside a painting.
I'm like begging at this point. Finding keys is monotonous, boring, (simple to code), but terrible and unoriginal.
In the kitchen, there is a window (good scenery outside the window). But you should very dim point lights that light up the room, as well as a boxlight for the whole map (that goes for anything). Just add more scenery. And use the light_dust particle system for windows/lights! It looks fantastic! I'm kinda lost here? No key to find? Do I break the window? I'm going to try that next.
Yup! Break the window. Okay. Please put an interact message with the unbroken window that says "This window is about to break." or something like that. To make it clear.
Please add that awesome skybox + cricket sounds outside to make it sound boss like the first outside area!
Um so I can't break this window, and I'm sure the rocks that you have to use have fallen down and they won't come up. So...???? Help? O_O
I guess I'm done, because I can't break this second window to get inside.
I am going to ask you a favor, bagobonez. Could you playtest my 13 map demo of my custom story (I'm selecting only a few people to do it because I don't want to spoil the whole thing) and provide feedback on my story? Thannnksss.
Would love to but I can't get it to work (copied the files into the custom_stories folder both directly and into their own folder to no avail). But I did notice looking in the directory that there was a new model which sounds cool. I can however critique the music and sound effects.
Sound effects: Overall terrible. You can make them sound passable with some heavy editing but I think you should record some new ones. Not much else to say.
Music: Not bad but not very good at all. Some of the tracks set up a cool mood but you never go anywhere with them. They're too monotonous and all of them overstay their welcome. They are all quite hideously dissonant too, and not in a good way. In "docks" you have a dissonant melody superimposed over some quite euphonic chords which is disturbing to listen to. One part in particular is quite jarring where you have this altered scale type thing going on with a major add11 chord (I think). "Im" is not bad but it is incredibly reminiscent of the Penumbra theme. In general though you should try to pick one mood you want to convey and stick with that.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2012, 07:01 PM by Bridge.)
Quote:Hmmm... I'm thinking what happened is you didn't actually find my little "bookshelf maze" in the library... there's an area near where the window is that you have to crouch to go under a leaning bookshelf, and then you walk through a claustrophobic "maze" of sorts with the bookshelves
That was unclear that I had to crouch. It looked like I had to jump over it, but I couldn't so I assumed it was impassable.
Quote:I thought about making more rooms open but I'm afraid if I do so, the player will forgo exploring rooms that contain notes which are crucial to the story and instead just try to finish it all as fast as they can.
That's their own fault, then. :/ Don't force your story on them, reward exploration.
Going to try this again now. Will update this post with my feedback.
Library (Part II)
Spoiler below!
You need to check "Cast Shadows" on the spotlights coming from the window, so that it looks more realistic. You'll thank me later. Finally ducked under the bookshelf, the space is so small it doesn't look possible to that (looks more probable to jump over. Consider correcting. Found the note, and a little jump scare with the pot falling down, but it didn't make me jump. I would consider a small sanity hit there.
Okay, went into Library Storage, found the key. Key puzzles are becoming overwhelming (to put it frank, you have more keys in this Library map than I have throughout my entire 13 map playable custom story demo right now).
Laboratory
Spoiler below!
I have this Laboratory Key, and it's useless on all of the doors. So now I'm going to have to try to leave and go upstairs. ...this is just searching for a door for the key to be used on. Boring, not gonna lie.
Top Room
Spoiler below!
Barricaded in. I guess I have no where else to go. I have a useless laboratory key and a door that won't open. What now? O_O
Laboratory Part II
Spoiler below!
Oh hai random key in stove...? Why is it there? O_O Do you remember in Amnesia the Dark Descent, how the keys to progress were hidden in plain sight or at the end of a map? That's exactly why - to prevent random searching for the key which isn't fun.
By the way, I noticed you have more oil sources than tinderboxes. Should be the other way around - should want to conserve lantern and use tinderboxes. Right now, I'm just lantern spamming because I got a free refill in the Dissection Room (which is unnecessarily locked).
Top Room
Spoiler below!
Used bone saw on wooden planks. Legend of Zelda sound just played? O_O LMAOOOO!!!! It's funny, but out of place in a horror game. Anyway, going to advance further and see what happens.
At this point I expect every cheap trick to hide keys to open obnoxiously locked doors. Yup, found key puzzle inside a painting.
I'm like begging at this point. Finding keys is monotonous, boring, (simple to code), but terrible and unoriginal.
In the kitchen, there is a window (good scenery outside the window). But you should very dim point lights that light up the room, as well as a boxlight for the whole map (that goes for anything). Just add more scenery. And use the light_dust particle system for windows/lights! It looks fantastic! I'm kinda lost here? No key to find? Do I break the window? I'm going to try that next.
Yup! Break the window. Okay. Please put an interact message with the unbroken window that says "This window is about to break." or something like that. To make it clear.
Please add that awesome skybox + cricket sounds outside to make it sound boss like the first outside area!
Um so I can't break this window, and I'm sure the rocks that you have to use have fallen down and they won't come up. So...???? Help? O_O
I guess I'm done, because I can't break this second window to get inside.
I am going to ask you a favor, bagobonez. Could you playtest my 13 map demo of my custom story (I'm selecting only a few people to do it because I don't want to spoil the whole thing) and provide feedback on my story? Thannnksss.
Ok, the ton of keys stuff thing I will definitely try to address that, I had a feeling that would get repetitive and it certainly has. But I feel like I'm getting some mixed messages from you on some other stuff... for example you said change the locked door text to simply say "locked" so as not to guide the player as to how to proceed... you also said to open things up and make it a less linear experience and encourage exploration. I have no problems with those things. But then there were the two areas (the library bookshelf) and now the window breaking thing where I feel like you kind of just prematurely gave up so to speak. Can I ask... what did you use to break the first window? The sledge hammer sitting nearby (which is kind of the hint that you need to break it so that i don't need to put text on the window) or one of the multitude of chairs at the table? I thought it was kind of obvious that the second window needed to be broken to proceed, but you gave up pretty quickly on attempting to break it. You can drag any of the chairs from the previous room across the wooden plank to break that window. Would appreciate if you would finish what I have, there are only two "rooms" to get through and neither of them has any locked doors. I will try yours as well, and I appreciate the feedback!
Quote:Hmmm... I'm thinking what happened is you didn't actually find my little "bookshelf maze" in the library... there's an area near where the window is that you have to crouch to go under a leaning bookshelf, and then you walk through a claustrophobic "maze" of sorts with the bookshelves
That was unclear that I had to crouch. It looked like I had to jump over it, but I couldn't so I assumed it was impassable.
Quote:I thought about making more rooms open but I'm afraid if I do so, the player will forgo exploring rooms that contain notes which are crucial to the story and instead just try to finish it all as fast as they can.
That's their own fault, then. :/ Don't force your story on them, reward exploration.
Going to try this again now. Will update this post with my feedback.
Library (Part II)
Spoiler below!
You need to check "Cast Shadows" on the spotlights coming from the window, so that it looks more realistic. You'll thank me later. Finally ducked under the bookshelf, the space is so small it doesn't look possible to that (looks more probable to jump over. Consider correcting. Found the note, and a little jump scare with the pot falling down, but it didn't make me jump. I would consider a small sanity hit there.
Okay, went into Library Storage, found the key. Key puzzles are becoming overwhelming (to put it frank, you have more keys in this Library map than I have throughout my entire 13 map playable custom story demo right now).
Laboratory
Spoiler below!
I have this Laboratory Key, and it's useless on all of the doors. So now I'm going to have to try to leave and go upstairs. ...this is just searching for a door for the key to be used on. Boring, not gonna lie.
Top Room
Spoiler below!
Barricaded in. I guess I have no where else to go. I have a useless laboratory key and a door that won't open. What now? O_O
Laboratory Part II
Spoiler below!
Oh hai random key in stove...? Why is it there? O_O Do you remember in Amnesia the Dark Descent, how the keys to progress were hidden in plain sight or at the end of a map? That's exactly why - to prevent random searching for the key which isn't fun.
By the way, I noticed you have more oil sources than tinderboxes. Should be the other way around - should want to conserve lantern and use tinderboxes. Right now, I'm just lantern spamming because I got a free refill in the Dissection Room (which is unnecessarily locked).
Top Room
Spoiler below!
Used bone saw on wooden planks. Legend of Zelda sound just played? O_O LMAOOOO!!!! It's funny, but out of place in a horror game. Anyway, going to advance further and see what happens.
At this point I expect every cheap trick to hide keys to open obnoxiously locked doors. Yup, found key puzzle inside a painting.
I'm like begging at this point. Finding keys is monotonous, boring, (simple to code), but terrible and unoriginal.
In the kitchen, there is a window (good scenery outside the window). But you should very dim point lights that light up the room, as well as a boxlight for the whole map (that goes for anything). Just add more scenery. And use the light_dust particle system for windows/lights! It looks fantastic! I'm kinda lost here? No key to find? Do I break the window? I'm going to try that next.
Yup! Break the window. Okay. Please put an interact message with the unbroken window that says "This window is about to break." or something like that. To make it clear.
Please add that awesome skybox + cricket sounds outside to make it sound boss like the first outside area!
Um so I can't break this window, and I'm sure the rocks that you have to use have fallen down and they won't come up. So...???? Help? O_O
I guess I'm done, because I can't break this second window to get inside.
I am going to ask you a favor, bagobonez. Could you playtest my 13 map demo of my custom story (I'm selecting only a few people to do it because I don't want to spoil the whole thing) and provide feedback on my story? Thannnksss.
Ok, the ton of keys stuff thing I will definitely try to address that, I had a feeling that would get repetitive and it certainly has. But I feel like I'm getting some mixed messages from you on some other stuff... for example you said change the locked door text to simply say "locked" so as not to guide the player as to how to proceed... you also said to open things up and make it a less linear experience and encourage exploration. I have no problems with those things. But then there were the two areas (the library bookshelf) and now the window breaking thing where I feel like you kind of just prematurely gave up so to speak. Can I ask... what did you use to break the first window? The sledge hammer sitting nearby (which is kind of the hint that you need to break it so that i don't need to put text on the window) or one of the multitude of chairs at the table? I thought it was kind of obvious that the second window needed to be broken to proceed, but you gave up pretty quickly on attempting to break it. You can drag any of the chairs from the previous room across the wooden plank to break that window. Would appreciate if you would finish what I have, there are only two "rooms" to get through and neither of them has any locked doors. I will try yours as well, and I appreciate the feedback!
I did try a chair, it didn't break. May I suggest just adding the ability to break it with your hand? (click on the window a few times).
My feedback with key puzzles is always: Have them few and far between, but when you have them, make sure they are clearly visible. Messages with "It's locked" + a Memento is much better than "It's locked...maybe there's a key around?" messages. It's like...a pet peeve of mine.
I will finish it (since I'm finally home from...well, stuff) sometime tomorrow.
And thanks for playing my custom story. My skype name is Putmalk (that's how I always like to share my stuff) so please add me and I'll give it to your there (really annoying to have to upload the file to a site).
Mashed the window open with a chair (just took a giant swing at it). Went inside. Suicide note. Kind of sad. Found some oil, approached bed. Forced to look at a dead body that abruptly just disappeared. Did not like. Appeared cheap and wasn't scary. Would have preferred just the crying sound effect + sanity drain.
Found a lever in the desk, hard to pull but I managed. Got the bookshelf opened. When I approached the hole, the piano shut itself. Not scary again, because I think the effect is incomplete. It should occur when interacted with, and should probably create particle effects.
Did not like the mapping in the staircase heading down at all. It looks empty and bland. I would remove this area entirely and just have the level door.
Staircase
Spoiler below!
Fucking creepy bro. I loved this. It was like SCP (the staircase one). I kept walking down, and I kept expecting a jump scare, but nothing happened. It also felt like something was chasing me, but nothing was. I really loved the effect. It was never ending, but it was still fun.
Why is there such a long staircase to climb down before this? That area was horrible, this area is awesome. Just delete that section.
Dungeon is unfinished. Not going to give feedback on it.
Overall, you have a good foundation for this story, but it is obviously incomplete and needs a lot of fine tuning. You need to work on:
- Billboards on windows
- Boxlighting your maps
- Sound effects around (like wind rushing, people crying, etc.)
- Less linearity (I like to explore around, give us the option to do so)
- Remove key puzzles. I don't mind like 2 or 3 of them. But you have them room by room. Really feels like handholding.
- Move that bookshelf a bit so it looks like you can crouch under it more easily.
- Add text to level doors so I know where I'm going.
- Maybe add an enemy that doesn't attack but walks around in the distance or so. To make the player more scared to advance.
- Less "forced" scares. Everytime a scare happens, you pan the camera to them. I would rather it be more natural. The scare happens, it makes a noise so that you know it happened, but then it's still rather like "Did that just happen? I don't know..." Make the player question himself.
- Thanks for not piling up jump scares. Appreciate that.
- Obviously if you tuned up on your scripting you can make effects that are more fluid and realistic.
Overall this is the best custom story demo I've played/reviewed on here. Thanks for sharing and good luck.
(05-27-2012, 05:29 AM)Putmalk Wrote: Top Room (Continued)
Spoiler below!
Mashed the window open with a chair (just took a giant swing at it). Went inside. Suicide note. Kind of sad. Found some oil, approached bed. Forced to look at a dead body that abruptly just disappeared. Did not like. Appeared cheap and wasn't scary. Would have preferred just the crying sound effect + sanity drain.
Found a lever in the desk, hard to pull but I managed. Got the bookshelf opened. When I approached the hole, the piano shut itself. Not scary again, because I think the effect is incomplete. It should occur when interacted with, and should probably create particle effects.
Did not like the mapping in the staircase heading down at all. It looks empty and bland. I would remove this area entirely and just have the level door.
Staircase
Spoiler below!
Fucking creepy bro. I loved this. It was like SCP (the staircase one). I kept walking down, and I kept expecting a jump scare, but nothing happened. It also felt like something was chasing me, but nothing was. I really loved the effect. It was never ending, but it was still fun.
Why is there such a long staircase to climb down before this? That area was horrible, this area is awesome. Just delete that section.
Dungeon is unfinished. Not going to give feedback on it.
Overall, you have a good foundation for this story, but it is obviously incomplete and needs a lot of fine tuning. You need to work on:
- Billboards on windows
- Boxlighting your maps
- Sound effects around (like wind rushing, people crying, etc.)
- Less linearity (I like to explore around, give us the option to do so)
- Remove key puzzles. I don't mind like 2 or 3 of them. But you have them room by room. Really feels like handholding.
- Move that bookshelf a bit so it looks like you can crouch under it more easily.
- Add text to level doors so I know where I'm going.
- Maybe add an enemy that doesn't attack but walks around in the distance or so. To make the player more scared to advance.
- Less "forced" scares. Everytime a scare happens, you pan the camera to them. I would rather it be more natural. The scare happens, it makes a noise so that you know it happened, but then it's still rather like "Did that just happen? I don't know..." Make the player question himself.
- Thanks for not piling up jump scares. Appreciate that.
- Obviously if you tuned up on your scripting you can make effects that are more fluid and realistic.
Overall this is the best custom story demo I've played/reviewed on here. Thanks for sharing and good luck.
I really appreciate the feedback and have already begun using most of your suggestions, most importantly removing most of the tedious key finding and polishing things to provide atmosphere. I feel the prison I have in mind is really going to be the best part of my cs and your suggestions will certainly help. Thanks again!
I really appreciate the feedback and have already begun using most of your suggestions, most importantly removing most of the tedious key finding and polishing things to provide atmosphere. I feel the prison I have in mind is really going to be the best part of my cs and your suggestions will certainly help. Thanks again!
If this prison of yours uses the dungeon base set, please for the love of all that is good, take your time with it. Dungeon base stuff can look ridiculously detailed and can be one of the best atmospheres if you have the right music and lighting! As I suggest to all who make maps, study Frictional Games' creations, it helps immensely.
(05-27-2012, 08:00 AM)bagobonez Wrote: I really appreciate the feedback and have already begun using most of your suggestions, most importantly removing most of the tedious key finding and polishing things to provide atmosphere. I feel the prison I have in mind is really going to be the best part of my cs and your suggestions will certainly help. Thanks again!
If this prison of yours uses the dungeon base set, please for the love of all that is good, take your time with it. Dungeon base stuff can look ridiculously detailed and can be one of the best atmospheres if you have the right music and lighting! As I suggest to all who make maps, study Frictional Games' creations, it helps immensely.
Yep I'm using the dungeon base set. I was amazed at how bland my first cell looked until I started adding dirt_floor decals, dirtwall decals, piles of rags, critters, shackles and the like. Gives it some character pretty fast. I'm excited about it.
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[REQUEST] Can someone test my CS so far?
May I suggest just adding the ability to break it with your hand? (click on the window a few times).
