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Just finished playing Dear Esther
Bridge Offline
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#11
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

(07-11-2012, 02:41 AM)Nyarlathotep Wrote: The story itself is written so that it's a puzzle. It's not meant to be told coherently, because there are meant to be any number of possibilities of what the story is actually about. The only concrete element is the car crash, which is the emotional center of the game. Other than that it's more of a surrealist experience.

Each time you load the game up you'll encounter randomized dialogue and visual details. Many of these changes are extremely subtle. It may not be your thing, but there is a lot of content there.

Jumping, running, and crouching were removed to maintain the solemn atmosphere and to avoid people triggering voice lines too soon. They didn't want people jumping and crouching randomly, they wanted their full attention on the environment.
1. That is not good writing. My job as a user is not to write the story, it's to interpret it. You can, with no small skill, write a fully fleshed out story that can be interpreted in a thousand different ways if you wish to create an open-ended story. Stories intended to invoke a feeling of mystery and puzzlement should lay the groundwork and let the audience fill in the blanks, not the other way around. It's insulting to anybody who wishes to play it because they are almost completely ignored, forced to listen to esoteric soliloquy and not even have basic control of their character.

2. Fair enough. I'm not motivated enough to actually look for them all but I'm willing to accept that it's a dynamic experience. However, the biggest problem with randomization is always lack of focus, which was very apparent in Dear Esther. Had they told a linear story (because the game is already extremely linear) or a branching one, that is created dynamically based on the choices the player makes or the areas he visits (you know… giving the player control). There's nothing interesting about randomization at all.

3. When I walk around outside I do not get hung up on insurmountable waist-height fences and easily traversable 160 degree slopes, and my feet are not locked in rigor mortis. There are plenty of games with interesting environments that also give you "privilege" of controlling your character in any conceivable way. Don't want your players to sequence break? Place your audio triggers correctly and that won't be a problem.

Seriously, why are you guys defending these aspects of the game? Even if you like it, or even if you love it and think it's the greatest game ever, you have to admit that these are flaws. Something can be technically bad in almost every way and still be aesthetically pleasing, but that doesn't change the fact that there are flaws.
07-11-2012, 05:02 PM
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Damascus Rose Offline
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#12
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

Absolutely Dear Esther has flaws, but I think this whole thing more of an experiment to see if anyone would really play it, and what the people who do play think about it. The lack of controls is incredibly frustrating but they had a good reason for putting it in, which as somebody said is to focus more on the environment and so that the dialogue doesn't trigger too fast. That's all this game is essentially, the environment and story, gameplay is evidently not it's strong point. It wasn't created to please people who like action and whatnot, it was made for the devoted cult fans, which I think can attribute to the cost being so high. I think they knew it wouldn't get huge sales and therefore upped the price to make up for development costs. And loads of people bought it and loved it.

I myself was in-between for it, I liked the environment and the voice acting, but I was very bothered by the slow walking and lack of controls. The story for me wasn't that good, but the writing was so I enjoyed that as well.

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(This post was last modified: 07-11-2012, 07:47 PM by Damascus Rose.)
07-11-2012, 07:46 PM
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razbojnik Offline
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#13
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

loved the slow walking. Story was very touching with many great details and tie-ins with the environment, I felt very immersed. Perfect and satisfying length too. Cutscene in the end was kind of a bad decision I think, would've been better with some interaction.


"you have to admit that these are flaws."
Nope. I liked the low fidelity of the gameplay mechanics in that I felt it put way more focus on the story and experience than cluttering it with unnecessary player input. Ofcourse Dear Esther was made in a budget way, but I really think the limit worked. You could make a similar game with a higher fidelity of gameplay mechanics but I don't think just giving the player the ability to jump and run around would be the best idea.
07-11-2012, 10:03 PM
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Bridge Offline
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#14
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

(07-11-2012, 07:46 PM)Damascus Rose Wrote: Absolutely Dear Esther has flaws, but I think this whole thing more of an experiment to see if anyone would really play it, and what the people who do play think about it. The lack of controls is incredibly frustrating but they had a good reason for putting it in, which as somebody said is to focus more on the environment and so that the dialogue doesn't trigger too fast. That's all this game is essentially, the environment and story, gameplay is evidently not it's strong point. It wasn't created to please people who like action and whatnot, it was made for the devoted cult fans, which I think can attribute to the cost being so high. I think they knew it wouldn't get huge sales and therefore upped the price to make up for development costs. And loads of people bought it and loved it.

I myself was in-between for it, I liked the environment and the voice acting, but I was very bothered by the slow walking and lack of controls. The story for me wasn't that good, but the writing was so I enjoyed that as well.
I wasn't expecting any action at all, I was just expecting something and got nearly nothing. Okay, it has a bitchin' score, cool performance by the narrator and stunning visuals. But it means nothing without a strong storyline which I think this game didn't have.

Compare it to the film Memento, where on the first viewing you are totally in the dark until the very end. It is also presented in a fragmented manner and can be interpreted in several different ways. The way in which these two pieces of art differ is that Memento sets up a strong premise and then presents you with a confusing narrative where you are allowed to fill in the blanks as the film goes along and Dear Esther gives you nothing but (apparently randomized?) blocks of narration that explain nothing.

It's just not cool to delegate such a huge part of the writing process onto the audience. Have you ever heard of a mystery novel where the characters don't even know there is a mystery?
07-11-2012, 10:04 PM
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Nyarlathotep Offline
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#15
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

I'm defending the writing because I don't consider it a flaw. I think they achieved what they set out to do. You may not personally enjoy it, and that's fine. To each their own.

The core of the game's story is the car crash. And that's an element that is pretty constant within the game. The dialogue and imagery revolve around that aspect. I found the narrations regarding the crash to have plenty of emotional impact, and was amazed when I saw the underwater motorway scene.

The details surrounding the crash and regarding who you are, are entirely puzzling. But again, it was written to be that way. I find it enjoyable to find new details each time I play the game and come up with new ideas regarding the story. Regardless of confusion, the emotions surrounding the narrator and the car crash are consistent and effective.

Quote:It's just not cool to delegate such a huge part of the writing process onto the audience. Have you ever heard of a mystery novel where the characters don't even know there is a mystery?

That's an exaggeration. There is plenty of material in the game to draw your own conclusions. It's just done in a way that there are many varieties of conclusions you could come to.

I'd compare it to how I feel about to Inland Empire. It's almost impossible to come to a single, concrete conclusion on the movie's story. But it's still well crafted and in the end I enjoyed thinking about it and discussing it with others.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2012, 04:13 AM by Nyarlathotep.)
07-12-2012, 03:42 AM
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#16
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

I really enjoyed Dear Esther, but I also agree with Bridge on the fact that leaving interactivity out of a game is a waste of potential. Interactivity is the one big strength games have over films and books and if done well it could have made experiencing Dear Esthers story much more intense.
While I found the story well written (if a little bit too artsy at times), I also felt kinda detached to it. Even small things like being able to pick up and examine the Paper Boats or blowing out candles would have helped a lot I think.

By the way, thechineseroom themselves seem to be of that opinion too if you look at the infos concerning the sequel Everybody's Gone To The Rapture:
Quote: Rather than a linear environment, the whole games takes place in one large world. We're experimenting with dynamic, adaptive storytelling and audio as the
backbone for the game, and re-introducing more interactive elements to
the experience.
07-12-2012, 01:01 PM
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Oswald Mandus Offline
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#17
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

i liked it the way it is, i didnt mind the slow walking and little interactivity and i dont see it as a flaw, i rather see this "game" as an audiovisual experience, but yeah i would like some more interaction(picking up objects,etc)
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2012, 07:42 PM by Oswald Mandus.)
07-12-2012, 07:35 PM
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Bridge Offline
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#18
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

(07-12-2012, 03:42 AM)Nyarlathotep Wrote: post
Really, I did not hate this game, I was just not amazed at the decisions made by the devs and the fundamental elements. The underwater motorway scene was extremely well done, I agree. The game needed more moments like that and less walking around an empty environment.
07-12-2012, 07:48 PM
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eliasfrost Offline
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#19
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

The biggest problem with this "game" is probably that it is advertised as a game (It's clearly not a game). I have only played the HL2 version many moons ago and some valuable brandwidth that got wasted and an hour of wasted time. I'm surprised that they actually made a full-fledged release of this.

Also, one thing that bugs me: If it was an experiment all along, just to the see the reaction and who's gonna buy it and who's not, then why did they create this when they could've advertised the source mod instead? It's the exact same thing, except it ain't pretty.

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07-12-2012, 08:46 PM
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Damascus Rose Offline
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#20
RE: Just finished playing Dear Esther

(07-12-2012, 08:46 PM)nackidno Wrote: The biggest problem with this "game" is probably that it is advertised as a game (It's clearly not a game). I have only played the HL2 version many moons ago and some valuable brandwidth that got wasted and an hour of wasted time. I'm surprised that they actually made a full-fledged release of this.

Also, one thing that bugs me: If it was an experiment all along, just to the see the reaction and who's gonna buy it and who's not, then why did they create this when they could've advertised the source mod instead? It's the exact same thing, except it ain't pretty.
On the contrary I believe it clearly is a game. You start it up, create a save, load it, and progress through the world and story yourself. And I believe the full game was made because Robert Briscoe decided to do an overhaul of it, it's on the website http://dear-esther.com/?page_id=2

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(This post was last modified: 07-12-2012, 09:06 PM by Damascus Rose.)
07-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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